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Thread: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

  1. #151
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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    And once again you don't provide a single reason why it should be illegal. I didn't ask if the government "had the right to decide who gets in," I asked why we should.
    And you even quote it.

    Any country has the right to decide who gets in and most certainly have a right to turn away those with well established criminal records.

    Wait, wasn't I was being horribly unfair when I paraphrased you as saying that they drive down wages? Make up your mind.
    I posted what it seems to me to be your position. Truthfully, I have no idea what it is. I don't think you really want to state it in any concise statement.

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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    And you even quote it.

    Any country has the right to decide who gets in
    That doesn't make any sense. You are essentially arguing that we should do this just because "countries have the right to decide." Not good enough. Countries "have the right to decide" all sorts of things; that doesn't actually tell us anything about whether it's a GOOD IDEA to enact certain policies. Give me a REASON, not an explanation of governmental powers.

    I posted what it seems to me to be your position. Truthfully, I have no idea what it is. I don't think you really want to state it in any concise statement.
    I'm not going to oversimplify a complex issue down to a bumper sticker, if that's what you're asking me to do. But here, in about of concise of terms as I can come up with:

    The illegal immigrants in this country are mostly unskilled and uneducated, doing jobs that Americans or skilled immigrants WON'T do (at least at the current wages). Having them here is a win for the employer, the consumer, and the immigrant himself. The only loser are unskilled/uneducated native-born citizens, who need to come to terms with a harsh reality: They aren't entitled to anything just by virtue of being Americans. If they want to outcompete people from other parts of the world, they need to EARN it by creating more value...not by erecting barriers to trade, crackdowns on illegal immigration, minimum wage laws, etc.

    That's not to say that we can't help them adjust. I'm all for helping them out with getting education/training, and helping them with their standard of living in the mean time. Social programs are FAR more effective and less distortive than throwing a wrench into the workings of the market with labor regulations.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-09-11 at 06:35 PM.
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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The illegal immigrants in this country are mostly unskilled and uneducated, doing jobs that Americans or skilled immigrants WON'T do (at least at the current wages). Having them here is a win for the employer, the consumer, and the immigrant himself. The only loser are unskilled/uneducated native-born citizens, who need to come to terms with a harsh reality: They aren't entitled to anything just by virtue of being Americans. If they want to outcompete people from other parts of the world, they need to EARN it by creating more value...not by erecting barriers to trade, crackdowns on illegal immigration, minimum wage laws, etc.

    That's not to say that we can't help them adjust. I'm all for helping them out with getting education/training, and helping them with their standard of living in the mean time. Social programs are FAR more effective and less distortive than throwing a wrench into the workings of the market with labor regulations.
    As they leave Alabama I will be certain to suggest they look you up in Washington D.C. We will both be happier. Each of us will get all the illegal aliens we want.

  4. #154
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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That doesn't make any sense. You are essentially arguing that we should do this just because "countries have the right to decide." Not good enough. Countries "have the right to decide" all sorts of things; that doesn't actually tell us anything about whether it's a GOOD IDEA to enact certain policies. Give me a REASON, not an explanation of governmental powers.
    I can see that there is no use in going any further. Selective quoting is just as bad as changing ones quotes.

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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I can see that there is no use in going any further. Selective quoting is just as bad as changing ones quotes.
    I quoted everything you wrote except for the strawman about people with well-established criminal records, since we are in agreement on that point. If someone is committing crimes (i.e. real crimes, not immigration crimes) then by all means deport them. Now, are you saying that you're OK with all the others?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-09-11 at 11:21 PM.
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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I quoted everything you wrote except for the strawman about people with well-established criminal records, since we are in agreement on that point. If someone is committing crimes (i.e. real crimes, not immigration crimes) then by all means deport them. Now, are you saying that you're OK with all the others?
    Sorry, deciding who we want to allow in and who we do not is not a strawman. As I said, this is a waste of time.

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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Kandahar:
    With all your rants you provide no proof, yet you expect those that do not agree with you to provide proof. Your quote:

    "The illegal immigrants in this country are mostly unskilled and uneducated, doing jobs that Americans or skilled immigrants WON'T do (at least at the current wages). Having them here is a win for the employer, the consumer, and the immigrant himself. The only loser are unskilled/uneducated native-born citizens, who need to come to terms with a harsh reality: They aren't entitled to anything just by virtue of being Americans. If they want to outcompete people from other parts of the world, they need to EARN it by creating more value...not by erecting barriers to trade, crackdowns on illegal immigration, minimum wage laws, etc."

    PBS did a report that showed illegals actually provide very little to the economy. Other threads have the link.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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