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Thread: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

  1. #121
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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    As I noted earlier, the same can be argued about taxes so I'm going to argue from here on out that not paying your taxes is a valid way of keeping your costs down.
    It would be perfectly valid to argue that businesses will have lower costs if tax law was changed, as I am suggesting immigration law should be. While I might object on practical grounds, I certainly would not object on the grounds that changing tax law would be approving of (previously) illegal activity.

    It should be illegal because no country has open borders and just allows whoever wants in, in. There, as you know, are very good reasons for this.
    We need not take in everyone in the world, but the current level of illegal immigration is not a problem.

    That isn't my arguement and unless you want to frame it correctly, I'm not going to continue.
    Umm you said the following:
    Without these illegal activities, nobody is going to be able to pay $3.00 an hour and get workers.
    How is that NOT arguing that employing poor immigrants drives down wages in those industries? I thought that was a pretty straightforward paraphrasing of what you wrote. If I have misconstrued it then please enlighten me.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-09-11 at 03:42 AM.
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  2. #122
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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by MKULTRABOY View Post
    Make it easyer for people to come here to the U.S legally , problem solved

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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Pay more, it's that simple.
    In other words, go out of business.

    Brilliant, Harry! Glad to see you truly understand the far-reaching consequences of Teabag impotent rage on our southern border.

  4. #124
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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Hey Teabaggers, thanks for the $10.00 apples.

    Well done!!

    Keep tanking the U.S. economy and then you can blame it on the black guy.
    Insults,racism and fear mongering in one post.Bravo. Maybe in your next post you can say Bush lied for war, the government had something to do with 9-11 and Obama was born in Kenya.

    Apples will not cost $10.00 a pound.That is nothing more than fear mongering spread by pro-illegals. If apples are 10 dollars a pound it won't be due to farmers paying workers a decent wages, it will due to other factors.

    Local News | Low-paid illegal work force has little impact on prices | Seattle Times Newspaper
    More than 7 million illegal immigrants work in the United States. They build houses, pick crops, slaughter cattle, stitch clothes, mow lawns, clean hotel rooms, cook restaurant meals and wash the dishes that come back.
    You might assume that the plentiful supply of low-wage illegal workers would translate into significantly lower prices for the goods and services they produce. In fact, their impact on consumer prices — call it the "illegal-worker discount" — is surprisingly small.

    The bag of Washington state apples you bought last weekend? Probably a few cents cheaper than it otherwise would have been, economists estimate. That steak dinner at a downtown restaurant? Maybe a buck off. Your new house in Subdivision Estates? Hard to say, but perhaps a few thousand dollars less expensive.

    The underlying reason, economists say, is that for most goods the labor — whether legal or illegal, native- or foreign-born — represents only a sliver of the retail price.
    Consider those apples — Washington's signature contribution to the American food basket.

    At a local QFC, Red Delicious apples go for about 99 cents a pound. Of that, only about 7 cents represents the cost of labor, said Tom Schotzko, a recently retired extension economist at Washington State University. The rest represents the grower's other expenses, warehousing and shipping fees, and the retailer's markup.

    And that's for one of the most labor-intensive crops in the state: It takes 150 to 190 hours of labor to grow and harvest an acre of apples, Schotzko said, compared to four hours for an acre of potatoes and 1 hours for an acre of wheat.
    The labor-intensive nature of many crops is a key reason agriculture continues to rely on illegal workers. A report by Jeffrey Passel, a demographer at the Pew Hispanic Center who has long studied immigration trends, estimates that 247,000 illegal immigrants were employed as "miscellaneous agricultural workers" last year — only 3.4 percent of the nation's 7.2 million illegal workers, according to Pew statistics, but 29 percent of all workers in that job category.

    Eliminating illegal farmworkers, by shrinking the pool of available labor, likely would raise wages for those who remain. Philip Martin, a professor of agricultural economics at the University of California, Davis, noted that two years after the old bracero program ended in 1964, the United Farm Workers union won a 40 percent increase for grape harvesters.
    A decade ago, two Iowa State University agricultural economists estimated that removing all illegal farmworkers would raise wages for seasonal farmworkers by 30 percent in the first couple of years, and 15 percent in the medium term.
    But supermarket prices of summer-fall fruits and vegetables, they concluded, would rise by just 6 percent in the short run — dropping to 3 percent over time, as imports took up some of the slack and some farmers mechanized their operations or shifted out of labor-intensive crops. (Winter-spring produce would be even less affected, they found, because so much already is imported.)
    If illegal workers disappeared from the apple harvest and wages for the remaining legal workers rose by 40 percent in response — and that entire wage increase were passed on to the consumer — that still would add less than 3 cents to the retail price of a pound of apples.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 10-09-11 at 09:47 AM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  5. #125
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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Insults,racism and fear mongering in one post.Bravo.
    Please show specifically what I said that is racist. Or apologize.




    Maybe in your next post you can say Bush lied for war, the government had something to do with 9-11 and Obama was born in Kenya.
    No, that's the Teabagger montra.

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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Please show specifically what I said that is racist. Or apologize.
    Telling people to blame it on the black guy




    No, that's the Teabagger montra.
    Seeing how you are spouting off of lib-tard partisan nonsense, why does it matter what conspiracy theory you spew?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  7. #127
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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    In other words, go out of business.

    Brilliant, Harry! Glad to see you truly understand the far-reaching consequences of Teabag impotent rage on our southern border.
    Yeah I'm sure supermarkets would struggle to pay farmers more for their produce........

  8. #128
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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    It would be perfectly valid to argue that businesses will have lower costs if tax law was changed, as I am suggesting immigration law should be. While I might object on practical grounds, I certainly would not object on the grounds that changing tax law would be approving of (previously) illegal activity.
    Here we go again. Last chance and then like a few others, you are not worth replying to. I DID NOT say anything about changing the tax law. I said if it's valid to skew market forces with illegal activity, it's just as valid to decide to gain an advantage by deciding that you are no longer going to pay your taxes. I'll discuss things all day with someone willing to discuss things honestly. No so with those who refuse to.

    We need not take in everyone in the world, but the current level of illegal immigration is not a problem.
    We need to control who gets in.

    How is that NOT arguing that employing poor immigrants drives down wages in those industries? I thought that was a pretty straightforward paraphrasing of what you wrote. If I have misconstrued it then please enlighten me.
    Neither of us disagree with hiring immigrants. You can not hire immigrants for $3.00 an hour. This is what this article is about. The government is telling this guy that he has to pay $10.50 an hour. You can only hire illegal immigrants for $3.00 an hour.
    Last edited by 1Perry; 10-09-11 at 04:38 PM.

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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Insults,racism and fear mongering in one post.Bravo. Maybe in your next post you can say Bush lied for war, the government had something to do with 9-11 and Obama was born in Kenya.
    Post like the one you replied to really aren't worth even acknowledging.

  10. #130
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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Neither of us disagree with hiring immigrants. You can not hire immigrants for $3.00 an hour. This is what this article is about. The government is telling this guy that he has to pay $10.50 an hour. You can only hire illegal immigrants for $3.00 an hour.
    Well then that is the heart of our disagreement, not immigration policy. I think he should be able to hire legal immigrants and US citizens for $3 an hour too, if he can find any who are willing to work for that price. If he can't, then that suggests to me that we should legalize many of those illegal immigrants who ARE willing to work for those wages.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-09-11 at 04:43 PM.
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