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Thread: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

  1. #101
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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by nijato View Post
    I agree. Minimum wages increase unemployment... just a fact of life. Perhaps a minimum wage is nessecary for other social reasons, but we should appreciate that it increases friction in the labor market, and puts the very least skilled and capable out of work.
    As I said in another thread, if you want to argue against a minimum wage as a solution, O.K., there are valid arguements there. Don't argue that the solution is illegal activity (not that you are).

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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The original justification for the minimum wage law was actually rooted in Jim Crow ideology. White people didn't like blacks taking "white jobs" for lower wages, so they implemented a minimum wage law forcing employers to pay wages that white people would work for (thus taking away the economic incentive to hire blacks instead of whites). That's not to say that most modern supporters of the minimum wage aren't well-intentioned, but I think the parallels are pretty obvious.
    The original minimum wage was .25 cents an hour. FDR enacted the wage because so that the government wouldn't be responsible for so many not able to feed themselves because they were getting a few pennies in sweat shops.

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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by Animus View Post
    Are you willing to pay more for your food? $5 per pound for apples instead $.99? $8 for a gallon of milk?

    Everything is so simple until your own neck is on the line.
    Hyperbole. The difference in what an illegal would be paid and what legally would be paid would make a difference but it would be a fairly small difference.

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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I've got news for you: you eat sand whenever you get a burger at McDonalds.
    .99 cents for a double cheeseburger. A pretty good deal and it's made by people making at least minimum wage. I'm O.K. with not paying .89 cents and having it served by illegals that I'm subsidizing with welfare.

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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    .99 cents for a double cheeseburger. A pretty good deal and it's made by people making at least minimum wage. I'm O.K. with not paying .89 cents and having it served by illegals that I'm subsidizing with welfare.
    Not sure what you mean by this. I was being literal. Fast food has sand in it for filler.

    Anyway, your bigotry against Mexican immigrants is duly noted.

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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Not sure what you mean by this. I was being literal. Fast food has sand in it for filler.

    Anyway, your bigotry against Mexican immigrants is duly noted.
    Your attempt at attacking me over a bogus claim is duly noted also. Also, resturaunts add "silica" which is found in sand. Silica is an essential nutrient. Vegitables, fruit, nuts all have silica in it.
    Last edited by 1Perry; 10-08-11 at 03:20 PM.

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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Nope its worth much more...but the basis of the entire problem is the employers DO NOT WANT TO PAY they want dirtcheap illegal immigrant labor that never complains
    I disagree, it's worth what the market (in this case the potential employer) can get away with paying for it. I always hear people saying, especially unemployed people, getting all indignant in their bitching because a job they've looked "doesn't pay what they're worth." So they don't even consider it and continue to suck off the unemployment tit or they lose everything. You're worth as an employee is determined by what your employer can get away with paying you and still remain viable as a business.

    This government and the corporate influence that dominates its policy making have given America this problem. It's called Capitalism. It's called the profit motive. It's called globalization. This is why our government does not address the illegal immigration issue. It's a federal responsibility to secure our borders and enforce immigration. They refuse to make any meaningful effort because corporate interest requires us to remain as open as possible with completely free international trade and cheap labor. That's why we have such a stark difference in how border states aggressively pursue tackling the real issues surrounding illegal immigration and the federal government essentially ignores it.

    The haves do not really care about the have nots in a mixed capitalist economy like ours, growing economic disparity is the inevitable result under the current American way of doing business. Period.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by Animus View Post
    Are you willing to pay more for your food? $5 per pound for apples instead $.99? $8 for a gallon of milk?

    Everything is so simple until your own neck is on the line.

    If people aren't allowed to hire illegals then Appeals will be five dollars a pound, no one will be around to clean hotel rooms or watch children and we will have to mow our own lawns.Oh the humanity


    Local News | Low-paid illegal work force has little impact on prices | Seattle Times Newspaper
    More than 7 million illegal immigrants work in the United States. They build houses, pick crops, slaughter cattle, stitch clothes, mow lawns, clean hotel rooms, cook restaurant meals and wash the dishes that come back.
    You might assume that the plentiful supply of low-wage illegal workers would translate into significantly lower prices for the goods and services they produce. In fact, their impact on consumer prices — call it the "illegal-worker discount" — is surprisingly small.

    The bag of Washington state apples you bought last weekend? Probably a few cents cheaper than it otherwise would have been, economists estimate. That steak dinner at a downtown restaurant? Maybe a buck off. Your new house in Subdivision Estates? Hard to say, but perhaps a few thousand dollars less expensive.

    The underlying reason, economists say, is that for most goods the labor — whether legal or illegal, native- or foreign-born — represents only a sliver of the retail price.
    Consider those apples — Washington's signature contribution to the American food basket.

    At a local QFC, Red Delicious apples go for about 99 cents a pound. Of that, only about 7 cents represents the cost of labor, said Tom Schotzko, a recently retired extension economist at Washington State University. The rest represents the grower's other expenses, warehousing and shipping fees, and the retailer's markup.

    And that's for one of the most labor-intensive crops in the state: It takes 150 to 190 hours of labor to grow and harvest an acre of apples, Schotzko said, compared to four hours for an acre of potatoes and 1 hours for an acre of wheat.
    The labor-intensive nature of many crops is a key reason agriculture continues to rely on illegal workers. A report by Jeffrey Passel, a demographer at the Pew Hispanic Center who has long studied immigration trends, estimates that 247,000 illegal immigrants were employed as "miscellaneous agricultural workers" last year — only 3.4 percent of the nation's 7.2 million illegal workers, according to Pew statistics, but 29 percent of all workers in that job category.

    Eliminating illegal farmworkers, by shrinking the pool of available labor, likely would raise wages for those who remain. Philip Martin, a professor of agricultural economics at the University of California, Davis, noted that two years after the old bracero program ended in 1964, the United Farm Workers union won a 40 percent increase for grape harvesters.
    A decade ago, two Iowa State University agricultural economists estimated that removing all illegal farmworkers would raise wages for seasonal farmworkers by 30 percent in the first couple of years, and 15 percent in the medium term.
    But supermarket prices of summer-fall fruits and vegetables, they concluded, would rise by just 6 percent in the short run — dropping to 3 percent over time, as imports took up some of the slack and some farmers mechanized their operations or shifted out of labor-intensive crops. (Winter-spring produce would be even less affected, they found, because so much already is imported.)
    If illegal workers disappeared from the apple harvest and wages for the remaining legal workers rose by 40 percent in response — and that entire wage increase were passed on to the consumer — that still would add less than 3 cents to the retail price of a pound of apples.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 10-08-11 at 05:10 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  9. #109
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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    The original minimum wage was .25 cents an hour. FDR enacted the wage because so that the government wouldn't be responsible for so many not able to feed themselves because they were getting a few pennies in sweat shops.
    Except a minimum wage INCREASES unemployment. Thus increasing the amount of people earning $0 per hour.

    for so many not able to feed themselves because they were getting a few pennies in sweat shops.
    That's ridiculous, if people weren't able to feed themselves, why would they take the job in the first place? What's the point of working if you aren't even earning enough to feed yourself?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-08-11 at 05:45 PM.
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    Re: Farmers Strain to Hire American in Place of Migrant Labor

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Except a minimum wage INCREASES unemployment. Thus increasing the amount of people earning $0 per hour.



    That's ridiculous, if people weren't able to feed themselves, why would they take the job in the first place? What's the point of working if you aren't even earning enough to feed yourself?
    Sometimes a ****ty job is better than no job.At least with a ****ty job you can save up money.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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