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Thread: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed in

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    Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Yank View Post
    Holder should be in an orange jump suit right about now but you know this president is not going to do anything about it. Hopefully the Republican that gets elected in 2012 will pursue this until every last one of these crooks is behind bars where they deserve to be.
    Why limit it to Eric Holder? Obama admitted he knew aboout it, already. Honestly, any discussion about reforms and truth and justice in the USA is a farce anymore. I mean, that Meredith chick in Italy went shopping after her roomie was dead, and they just bribed their way out of it. She's as guilty as O.J.

    Justice isn't blind its deaf and dumb.

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    Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Part of me knows you probably right, the other part says these guys in the White House and DoJ are book smart and real world dumb. It probably sounded really good on paper but reality is, it was some real dumb **** to try... everyone at the lower levels knew it.
    Even on paper it's a dumb idea to sell or give weapons to cartel members,especially those in another country. We do not have jurisdiction in Mexico. Mexico may not mind their citizens freely going back and forth across our borders but I am pretty sure they are not going to allow American law enforcement to go back and forth to make arrests. Even if they did they won't be armed unless things have changed since this story- Obama and Mexico: We Will Not Allow U.S. Agents to Be Armed
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

    I question the motives of the U.S. "sting operation".

    Rather than trying to aid in capturing the cartels, I would bet that the government is secretly trying to control/profit from the drug running like in the Barry Seal/Contra/Air America/Panama scandals.

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    Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    The idea that Obama purposely put 2,000 guns into the hands of drug lords (while purposely making them trackable) just to make some sort of attack on the 2nd Amendment is completely stupid and paranoid. It brings to mind the liberal reaction to the Tuscon shooting, which we all know conservatives were furious about.
    The only problem there is it seems that they didn't actually bother tracking them.

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    Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

    Quote Originally Posted by nijato View Post
    This is one of the fishiest of things that has happened in the wacky world of covert government ops in a long time. Yes, Holder must go, but the story is much bigger than him. The US is pretty obviously playing games with the cartels, and my personal belief is that this was a completely intentional arms transfer that somehow got out into the daylight. I bet Alex Jones and Mike Ruppert are having a field day with this one.

    The real answer is to legalize pot and put the cartels out of business.
    I'm not against legalizing pot but I'm just curious.....why would the cartels not simply expand into cocaine and other harder drugs?

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    Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I'm not against legalizing pot but I'm just curious.....why would the cartels not simply expand into cocaine and other harder drugs?
    In my imagination harder stuff is what they would want.

    Anyone who has lived in California for over a month knows that Mexican weed = stress and American weed = chronic. Legal American dispensaries and homegrown laws take care of Mexican pot traffic if you have a state license.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I'm not against legalizing pot but I'm just curious.....why would the cartels not simply expand into cocaine and other harder drugs?
    I'm sure they would and currently do... but it's a much smaller market. As long as there are illegal substances, there will be people that illegaly traffic them.
    "A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

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    Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

    an independent counsel is needed for this matter

    the emails indicate ATF had a legitimate goal. trouble was, they could not shoot straight. didn't the batteries die on the transponders used to locate the guns?

    but holder's sworn testimony needs to be objectively investigated. does the record support his presentation that he misunderstood the question ... a dubious claim by the nation's highest law enforcement official ... or did he actually lie to congress
    neither option is indicative of someone of the caliber deserving to serve as the AG; one of those options is criminal
    we need to know whether holder is simply incompetent, or a perjurer
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Yank View Post
    Cocaine & Heroin too? I dont think so... pot is hardly the problem here.

    Considering the piles of bodies & mass graves turing up down there I'd think it would be perfectly justified to start taking out these cartel leaders with drone strikes as it seems to be working fairly well against Al Qaeda whom hasnt killed as many recently as these drug lords have.
    It's a problem that might have to be looked at in different ways than in the past. This fro Mark Steyn's 'After America'
    4,000 Americans died in Iraq from 2003 to 2010, and 13,000 Mexicans died in the drug battles of that country in 2010 alone. Although Steyn doesn’t get too much into it, he touches on the facts that the United States has concentrated on reducing supply and transport of drugs in foreign countries, rather than on the demand in the United States, and that it has endlessly taken the dragnet through the ghettoes rather than through the middle-class university students and young white-collar urban youth. The emphasis has been on imprisonment rather than treatment, and it is not credible that the greatest military power in the world could not control its own borders if it was serious. While this is not a particular focus, the War on Drugs is a sinkhole of corruption and hypocrisy, as is much of the rest of the American legal system.

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    Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I'm not against legalizing pot but I'm just curious.....why would the cartels not simply expand into cocaine and other harder drugs?
    I think we have to ask ourselves why any reasonable person would inject heroin into their system in the first place? Peer pressure? Depression? Is it cool? It has to be emphasized that it is not cool, but instead very stupid. Maybe a drug version of Scared Straight at the schools.

    But whatever the new answers might be, we can be sure that the old ones aren't working.

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