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Thread: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed in

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    Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

    I think this is a big deal, and Holder must go. On another note, other than attempting to disparage the 2nd, why would the President of the US authorize such a move? What was their reasoning behind this policy? If I'm the Mexican President, I have a big problem with this??


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    Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    I think this is a big deal, and Holder must go. On another note, other than attempting to disparage the 2nd, why would the President of the US authorize such a move? What was their reasoning behind this policy? If I'm the Mexican President, I have a big problem with this??


    Tim-
    I believe the stated (and complete bull****) reason was to use the guns at sort of bait, in order to find and track down the cartels. I know. It makes no sense, but that's the smoke screen.

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    Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

    Quote Originally Posted by conservativeguy View Post
    Of course its linked to that perspective. BO and Holder wanted to plant guns in Mexico as a means to attack our 2nd amendment rights. They hoped to show US sold guns were eventually used by drug cartel members. They didn't expect to be caught doing the "planting". Now they are in cover-up mode and Holder is simply too stupid to pull it off effectively.
    I don't think it was specifically to attack our 2nd amendment rights (and I'm a big 2nd amendment defender btw) I think it was more like they wanted to throw the anti-Gun lobby a bone and saw this as an opportunity to do that. I would think the opportunity just presented itself and it wasn't planned that way. Saying it was planned would give wayyyyy too much credit to this Administration.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

    Crickets chirp in the silence by the left over this. Especially in light of the blown way out of proportion reaction to Bush's Attorney General Gonzales just for firing some attorneys, which work at the total discretion of the President anyway, but hey that was Bush right, not your anointed one.

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    Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I don't think it was specifically to attack our 2nd amendment rights (and I'm a big 2nd amendment defender btw) I think it was more like they wanted to throw the anti-Gun lobby a bone and saw this as an opportunity to do that. I would think the opportunity just presented itself and it wasn't planned that way. Saying it was planned would give wayyyyy too much credit to this Administration.
    I think that assuming the government incompetent is not really wise. Because no one in their right mind would think its a good idea giving drug gangs in another country who not subject to our laws or jurisdiction a **** load of weapons unless there was a ulterior motive.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

    Meanwhile police in Mexico get shot.

    I find it a little odd that as the Mexican militairy takes on more of a presence in Mexico more "drug lords" shoot up the old form of control (police) and take credit for it.

    Who in the hell commits a crime and then announces it to the world? (sure it can happen but I think more often than not they would want to keep it a secret)

    Little weird how when there is a shift of power the cops end up being targeted. Maybe the cartels are scared of the militairy and thats the only reason why cops are being assassinated? Or maybe someone close to their government is taking out the old power.
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    Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

    Another, frankly far more plausible, conspiracy theory:

    FARAGO: Was CIA behind Operation Fast and Furious? - Washington Times

    The CIA’s motive is clear enough: The U.S. government is afraid the Los Zetas drug cartel will mount a successful coup d’etat against the government of Felipe Calderon.

    Founded by ex-Mexican special forces, the Zetas already control huge swaths of Mexican territory. They have the organization, arms and money needed to take over the entire country.

    Former CIA pilot Robert Plumlee and former CIA operative and DEA Director Phil Jordan recently said the brutally efficient Mexican drug cartel has stockpiled thousands of weapons to disrupt and influence Mexico’s national elections in 2012. There’s a very real chance the Zetas cartel could subvert the political process completely, as it has throughout the regions it controls.

    In an effort to prevent a Los Zetas takeover, Uncle Sam has gotten into bed with the rival Sinaloa cartel, which has close ties to the Mexican military. Recent court filings by former Sinaloa cartel member Jesus Vicente Zambada Niebla, currently in U.S. custody, reveal that the United States allowed the Sinaloas to fly a 747 cargo plane packed with cocaine into American airspace - unmolested.

    The CIA made sure the trade wasn’t one-way. It persuaded the ATF to create Operation Fast and Furious - a “no strings attached” variation of the agency’s previous firearms sting. By design, the ATF operation armed the Mexican government’s preferred cartel on the street level near the American border, where the Zetas are most active.
    It's not always about screwing conservatives, you know.

    The idea that Obama purposely put 2,000 guns into the hands of drug lords (while purposely making them trackable) just to make some sort of attack on the 2nd Amendment is completely stupid and paranoid. It brings to mind the liberal reaction to the Tuscon shooting, which we all know conservatives were furious about.
    Last edited by Cameron; 10-05-11 at 03:34 PM.
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    Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

    Quote Originally Posted by mtlhdtodd View Post
    Crickets chirp in the silence by the left over this. Especially in light of the blown way out of proportion reaction to Bush's Attorney General Gonzales just for firing some attorneys, which work at the total discretion of the President anyway, but hey that was Bush right, not your anointed one.
    I've kind of been enjoying the hyperbole of some. I agree that if Holder broke the law, prejury, he should be charged. This should be true of anyone. Any crime, regardless of party or position should be held accountable to the law. Sadly that hasn't been the case for far too long.

    Now, having read what we can of the memos, while I see some problems, I don't see what some of you are claiming. Only to make gun owners look bad? That's just silly. The memos show they were hoping to get prosecutions. That he wasn't involved in the day to day decisions. But he may very well have know a bit more than he let said.

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    Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    Another, frankly far more plausible, conspiracy theory:

    FARAGO: Was CIA behind Operation Fast and Furious? - Washington Times

    It's not always about screwing conservatives, you know.

    The idea that Obama purposely put 2,000 guns into the hands of drug lords (while purposely making them trackable) just to make some sort of attack on the 2nd Amendment is completely stupid and paranoid. It brings to mind the liberal reaction to the Tuscon shooting, which we all know conservatives were furious about.
    If all these drug lords are in Mexico then what good does it to put traceable guns into their hands? Is the Mexican government going to say sure come on in and and make arrests? Are these drug lords going to **** a brick and surrender when they see an American law enforcement agent trying to make an arrest on Mexican soil instead of laughing their ass off and shooting that American law enforcement agent? The only thing selling weapons to drug dealers in countries do is give them extra weapons.

    I do not think the government would say hey lets sell Al Queada some nukes and see if we can trace the sale of nuclear weapons on Pakistani soil. The reason they wouldn't do it because terrorist would use those weapons just like drug gangs in other countries would use firearms to kill people.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 10-05-11 at 04:18 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

    [QUOTE=Krhazy;1059849382]Another, frankly far more plausible, conspiracy theory:

    FARAGO: Was CIA behind Operation Fast and Furious? - Washington Times

    ~----- In an effort to prevent a Los Zetas takeover, Uncle Sam has gotten into bed with the rival Sinaloa cartel, which has close ties to the Mexican military. Recent court filings by former Sinaloa cartel member Jesus Vicente Zambada Niebla, currently in U.S. custody, reveal that the United States allowed the Sinaloas to fly a 747 cargo plane packed with cocaine into American airspace - unmolested. ------~
    QUOTE]

    So lemme get this straight. American put guns in the hands of cartell in bed with mexican militiary. Meanwhile police chiefs die.
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

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