• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Perry once defended Confederate symbols

...ah, maybe a guy with no hands?

I think you are going to fit in just fine here. Judging from what you just posted, you will be very happy to see what opens up to you once you reach 250 posts. LOL.
 
That is not the issue here, Thunder. I accept that slavery was the main reason for the Civil War, but that the reason for the Confederate flag being flown by some is much more complicated than that, and I gave my reasons in the original post, which you should read. It is not kosher to attempt to change the parameters of a discussion, once it has been posted.

In my humble opinion, Southerners fly the Rebel flag to thumb their noses at the North and at blacks.

Yes, I have seen the photos of a few black folks actually waving this flag. I don't think they understand what they are doing.

Living in WV for a year gave me enough experience with folks who love the Rebel flag, to understand what their motivations are.
 
In my humble opinion, Southerners fly the Rebel flag to thumb their noses at the North and at blacks.

Yes, I have seen the photos of a few black folks actually waving this flag. I don't think they understand what they are doing.

Living in WV for a year gave me enough experience with folks who love the Rebel flag, to understand what their motivations are.

I don't really believe this. You do realize that WV was part of the Union right? In fact, WV was created because the citizens did not want to be part of the Confederate state Virginia. I doubt WV natives were waving around a Rebel flag to an extent that gives you expertise on the matter after just one year of living in a state that was part of the union.

Most Southerners do not fly the Rebel flag because they hate blacks...
 
In my humble opinion, Southerners fly the Rebel flag to thumb their noses at the North and at blacks.

Yes, I have seen the photos of a few black folks actually waving this flag. I don't think they understand what they are doing.

Living in WV for a year gave me enough experience with folks who love the Rebel flag, to understand what their motivations are.

Then you are seeing the racists only. Here in Texas, I see a lot of people flying the Stars and Bars. Yes, SOME of them are racist, but when you use a broad brush to cast EVERYONE who flies the flag as racist, then you are no better than those racists who use broad brushes to paint blacks with derogatory stereotypes.
 
In my humble opinion, Southerners fly the Rebel flag to thumb their noses at the North and at blacks.

Yes, I have seen the photos of a few black folks actually waving this flag. I don't think they understand what they are doing.

Living in WV for a year gave me enough experience with folks who love the Rebel flag, to understand what their motivations are.

Some will always buy into the opporession. Women have seen men as superior and enforced the oppression on other women for example. There is some name for that somewhere. Brain frat right now. But it's not unusual.

But it should not be a surprise how you see the flag, like any such symbol, really depends on your viewpoint, and what it represents to you. The question is should we care what it means to those who were abused under that symbol? How about any symbol? Is there no symbol you'd rather not see flying around? On government building?
 
I think you are going to fit in just fine here. Judging from what you just posted, you will be very happy to see what opens up to you once you reach 250 posts. LOL.

I'll bite...what opens up?
 
Flying the confederate flag at state houses SHOULD be illegal, regardless of what it means to who. That is PUBLIC property, paid for and maintained by that public's tax money. If there is so much as just ONE tax payer that doesn't want that flag, that flag should not be flown, period, end of discussion.

be careful what you wish for. what happens when ONE tax payer doesn't want something you enjoy?
 
Eh, I don't have a dog in this race. I'll admit that when I see trucks sporting confederate flags, I grimace on the inside and yes... I judge them as redneck racists. Sorry. If I stood on the corner in fishnet stockings, wearing a see-through blouse and a mini-skirt so short my crotch showed, you'd judge me a hooker. *shrug* Same difference.

If folks want to display their confederate flags, let them. Freedom of expression and all that. If it offends people, well, there's no constitutional right not to be offended. Just be aware as you display it you are liable to be judged by others, for better or worse. To me it stands for racism and a wish to return to slavery. That's how I'll judge people who display it. Sue me. :lol:
 
Eh, I don't have a dog in this race. I'll admit that when I see trucks sporting confederate flags, I grimace on the inside and yes... I judge them as redneck racists. Sorry. If I stood on the corner in fishnet stockings, wearing a see-through blouse and a mini-skirt so short my crotch showed, you'd judge me a hooker. *shrug* Same difference.

If folks want to display their confederate flags, let them. Freedom of expression and all that. If it offends people, well, there's no constitutional right not to be offended. Just be aware as you display it you are liable to be judged by others, for better or worse. To me it stands for racism and a wish to return to slavery. That's how I'll judge people who display it. Sue me. :lol:

...and "sticks and stones" will be what those Rednecks you discuss will be saying.
 
Eh, I don't have a dog in this race. I'll admit that when I see trucks sporting confederate flags, I grimace on the inside and yes... I judge them as redneck racists. Sorry. If I stood on the corner in fishnet stockings, wearing a see-through blouse and a mini-skirt so short my crotch showed, you'd judge me a hooker. *shrug* Same difference.

I'd buy you a drink. ;)
 
Ordinances of Secession

from the Texas declaration of secession:

WHEREAS, The recent developments in Federal affairs make it evident that the power of the Federal Government is sought to be made a weapon with which to strike down the interests and property of the people of Texas, and her sister slave-holding States, instead of permitting it to be, as was intended, our shield against outrage and aggression; THEREFORE,

from the Virginia declaration of secession:

and the Federal Government having perverted said powers not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern slave-holding States

...yeah, slavery had nothing to do with the Civil War.

;)

I don't recall anyone saying that slavery had nothing to do with the CW. It did. However it was only part of the reason for the CW.
 
In my humble opinion, Southerners fly the Rebel flag to thumb their noses at the North and at blacks.

Yes, I have seen the photos of a few black folks actually waving this flag. I don't think they understand what they are doing.

Living in WV for a year gave me enough experience with folks who love the Rebel flag, to understand what their motivations are.

I don't have any way of knowing what-all your experiences are. But if they're limited to one year in West Virginia and, I'm guessing, one town and one neighborhood--in other words, a very small sample, your experience may really be limited.

I don't fly the "Confederate Flag," but I have one that was given to me after a reenactment quite a few years ago. It's always been folded in a drawer. I have an expensive print that I inherited of Jeb Stuart--"The Last Cavalier"--hanging in my living room, and a small framed collection of mini-balls, bullets, and brass from The Battle of Pleasant Hill. Some of my family are buried right alongside the slender CSA markers. Some of my other relatives are buried where they were born "up North."

It's complicated. Sure, there are a few you'd brand as "rednecks" or worse who have decals on their trucks or as buckles on their belts. But you're no different than those you're lumping everybody else in with if you really, really think that it's all about racism.

And about that, I guess you don't really how incredibly patronizing you sound when you say that "black folks...don't understand what they're doing."
 
As always with this discussion, there are those who understand and those that will never accept what the Confederation and the symbol of the Confederacy means.

1. It's regional pride, Southerns have more in common with each other, than they do with the rest of this nation, it's almost an ethnicity.
2. It represents a "**** the police", anti authority mentality.
3. Like it or not, it does represent a historically significant people, that to us, has put forth a traditional "against all odds" spirit.
 
It is all of those things, which begs the question, why fly it at the site of the very things the confederacy fought against?
 
It is all of those things, which begs the question, why fly it at the site of the very things the confederacy fought against?

The state capital isn't what they fought against.
They fought against federal control.

It signifies that the South is a somewhat different animal than the rest of the U.S., for better or for worse.
 
I don't know. I mean, I'm from SC, and I remember the big crap fest they had a couple decades ago or so about flying that flag over Columbia, the capital. I never got it then, and I still don't get it now. Fly it in a museum if it has historical significance, and fly it in your front lawn if it has any other meaning. Why seek to impose your historical opinions, or sentimental values on other people? You can argue all day long about whether Lincoln was the savior to the blacks that the history books I read in school portrayed him as, or if he was a misguided tyrant, as a much more exhaustive historical investigation might reveal him to be...All the more reason, I say, to NOT fly the flag over tax funded properties. I mean, you can't have religious symbols, the supreme court DID rule on that one.
 
please name the states that still practised slavery after the Civil War began.

Missouri, Kentucky, West Virginia, Maryland, and Delaware

please name the states that still practised slavery after the Emancipation Proclamation.

The Emancipation Proclamation only applied to the rebelling states. It didn't do anything to slavery in the Border States.
 
I don't know. I mean, I'm from SC, and I remember the big crap fest they had a couple decades ago or so about flying that flag over Columbia, the capital. I never got it then, and I still don't get it now. Fly it in a museum if it has historical significance, and fly it in your front lawn if it has any other meaning. Why seek to impose your historical opinions, or sentimental values on other people? You can argue all day long about whether Lincoln was the savior to the blacks that the history books I read in school portrayed him as, or if he was a misguided tyrant, as a much more exhaustive historical investigation might reveal him to be...All the more reason, I say, to NOT fly the flag over tax funded properties. I mean, you can't have religious symbols, the supreme court DID rule on that one.

It represents a regional ethnicity.
The South for all intents, is a separate ethnic group, having it's own culture and values.
 
I don't know. I mean, I'm from SC, and I remember the big crap fest they had a couple decades ago or so about flying that flag over Columbia, the capital. I never got it then, and I still don't get it now. Fly it in a museum if it has historical significance, and fly it in your front lawn if it has any other meaning. Why seek to impose your historical opinions, or sentimental values on other people? You can argue all day long about whether Lincoln was the savior to the blacks that the history books I read in school portrayed him as, or if he was a misguided tyrant, as a much more exhaustive historical investigation might reveal him to be...All the more reason, I say, to NOT fly the flag over tax funded properties. I mean, you can't have religious symbols, the supreme court DID rule on that one.

That past is what makes up today. Without it we cannot learn. Without it we have no identity. Without it we are nothing. It defines us and makes us who we are, not just on a personal level but also on a socital level as well. As such we must always be reminded or we are doomed as a society.
 
Last edited:
I am really torn on this one. True, the Confederate flag represents slavery to most people, as the primary purpose in the South's secession was their insistence that they had the right to slavery. But it goes much deeper than that. The Stars and Bars also represents the South's view that the North supported slavery too.... The kind of slavery that comes with one region imposing it's will on another. Yea, I know, I know, it's not the same thing, but there was a culture in the South that saw the big Government of the North as a dictator. In that sense, the Confederate flag represents small government. From the Revolution onward, the South was the poster child for smaller government, and has always been.

To the KKK'ers who fly the Confederate flag, **** you. I know what kind of people you are. To the others who fly it, you have my blessing. I understand that the Confederate flag represents a philosophy of smaller government that is returning, after having been.... gone with the wind.... Yea, had to rip that line to set up my closing statement. As much as I detest Rick Perry, I see no problem with his supporting Confederate symbols. As for the politically correct who want to ban those symbols, frankly, I don't give a damn.

Article is here.

The Confederate Flag that is commonly flown is the "war flag" of the Southern States and therefore, it represents treason.
 
...3. Like it or not, it does represent a historically significant people, that to us, has put forth a traditional "against all odds" spirit.

funny, I always felt that way about the brave African-Americans who fought against the brutality of slavery.

John Brown & Nat Turner are heroes of mine.
 
funny, I always felt that way about the brave African-Americans who fought against the brutality of slavery.

John Brown & Nat Turner are heroes of mine.

John Brown was white.
 
make no mistake, slavery was THE underlying issue which divided the nation
state's rights was only an argument used in the defense of slavery

Slavery was a part of state's rights then. The southern slave states had fought to maintain a balance between free and slave states, i.e. an equal number. The Missouri Compromise permitted slavery in the Louisiana Purchase south of the Missouri border. The Compromise of 1850 allowed unorganized lands, largely Arizona and New Mexico to decide locally if they wanted to be free or slave. The Kansas-Nebraska act essentially repealed the Missouri Compromise and resulted in widespread campaigning and violence in Kansas to determine whether they would be free or slave. But the south was losing both in the number of states = Senators, and in population density, which = Representatives.

The southern states were largely agrarian at that time, which made slavery profitable, while the north was more heavily industrialized, which didn't favor slavery. From the southern point of view, if slavery was abolished, it would wreck their economy. So they saw no choice but to secede.


 
Back
Top Bottom