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Perry once defended Confederate symbols

The issues that lead to the Civil War are similar to the issues that had Rick Perry talking about Texas seceding.

From about 1820 on, the federal government was dismantling the original idea of the US being a loose union of states under one umbrella (The Articles of Confederation 1777) Increasingly the federal government was passing laws that favored central government over state government control of things like taxes, industry, owning slaves, and dealings with other countries. This started about 1820 - long before the Civil war in the early 1860's. Abraham Lincoln ran on a platform of strong federal government during a period when tension were already high. When he won the election, several states attempted to leave the US because they knew that Lincoln was planning to use the federal government to override state laws to prevent them from keeping slaves, trading with Europe and other countries without the federal government's interference and forcing the south to sell their agricultural products (shelve-stable foods and cotton) to the north more cheaply than they could sell them to other countries. To say slavery was the primary issue just does not hold true. States right to sovereignty versus Federal right to rule states was the primary issue.
 
Thunder said:
please name the states that still practised slavery after the Civil War began.
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There were slaves in census records and listed as such, but damned if I can find it at the moment. I will look tonight and cite the reference.

please name the states that still practised slavery after the Emancipation Proclamation.
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Southern States and some border states. Your point being?

and no, the seccesion of the CSA states was illegal & unConstitutional, as the Constitution makes NO provisions for a state or any other piece of American territory being able to secede from the Union.
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No law against it? Indeed. Show me where it was forbidden in the Constitution.
 
danarhea said:
I am really torn on this one. True, the Confederate flag represents slavery to most people, as the primary purpose in the South's secession was their insistence that they had the right to slavery. But it goes much deeper than that. The Stars and Bars also represents the South's view that the North supported slavery too.... The kind of slavery that comes with one region imposing it's will on another. Yea, I know, I know, it's not the same thing, but there was a culture in the South that saw the big Government of the North as a dictator. In that sense, the Confederate flag represents small government. From the Revolution onward, the South was the poster child for smaller government, and has always been.

To the KKK'ers who fly the Confederate flag, **** you. I know what kind of people you are. To the others who fly it, you have my blessing. I understand that the Confederate flag represents a philosophy of smaller government that is returning, after having been.... gone with the wind.... Yea, had to rip that line to set up my closing statement. As much as I detest Rick Perry, I see no problem with his supporting Confederate symbols. As for the politically correct who want to ban those symbols, frankly, I don't give a damn.

Article is here.
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The Confederate Flag (Old Dixie) was the Battle Flag of the South.....AWESOME FLAG.

God Bless the Stars and Cross Bars.... AND GOD BLESS ALL THOSE THAT SHOW IT.
 
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dixiesolutions said:
The Confederate Flag (Old Dixie) was the Battle Flag of the South..... It did not ever represent slavery.
God Bless the Stars and Cross Bars. AND GOD BLESS ALL THOSE THAT SHOW IT.
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the South seceded because they didn't want the Federal govt. telling them they can't own slaves.

slavery was the main cause of the Civil War, as you can see in many of the declarations of secession.
 
Risky Thicket said:
...Southern States and some border states. Your point being?

No law against it? Indeed. Show me where it was forbidden in the Constitution.
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yes, the CSA kept their slaves even AFTER the Emancipation Proclamation, which vioated federal law.

Please show us where the United States Constitution provides for any states or other territories to secede from the nation.
 
Thunder said:
the South seceded because they didn't want the Federal govt. telling them they can't own slaves.

slavery was the main cause of the Civil War, as you can see in many of the declarations of secession.
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If there is not a big switch of politics in DC....We'll all be slaves to the goverment.....History will then repeat itself.
 
KevinKohler said:
Flying the confederate flag at state houses SHOULD be illegal, regardless of what it means to who. That is PUBLIC property, paid for and maintained by that public's tax money. If there is so much as just ONE tax payer that doesn't want that flag, that flag should not be flown, period, end of discussion.
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History and heritage means nothing, right? In that case, being Irish, I want all signs that have English names on them to be changed to anything else...that would include states and cities. Can we do that, or do we just address your petty view on a flag?
 
coolwalker said:
History and heritage means nothing, right?...
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The American South has existed for centuries. The Stars & Bars existed for 4 years.

the only heritage that this flag represents is the heritage of treason and defending a system of human bondage.
 
Thunder said:
the South seceded because they didn't want the Federal govt. telling them they can't own slaves.

slavery was the main cause of the Civil War, as you can see in many of the declarations of secession.
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Lincoln once said that if ending the war meant allowing slavery to continue then that was fine by him. He didn't care if slavery continued or ended...he just wanted a unified Union and country. The southern states knew this.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Lincoln once said that if ending the war meant allowing slavery to continue then that was fine by him. He didn't care if slavery continued or ended...he just wanted a unified Union and country.
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and of course you have evidence for this?
 
Thunder said:
fly it on your own personal property, your cars, your choppers, etc. fly the Nazi flag with it for all I care, plus the old South African flag and the flag of the USSR.

just don't fly it on govt. property.
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Flying Old Dixie on goverment property - Theres nothing wrong with that.

Bad enough there are those SPONGING support in form of Welfare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, HUD Free Houseing. With funding out of our Tax dollars.
So if we True Southerners want those Confederate Flags flying on goverment property. It's the least of simple satisfaction.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Lincoln once said that if ending the war meant allowing slavery to continue then that was fine by him. He didn't care if slavery continued or ended...he just wanted a unified Union and country. The southern states knew this.
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Lincoln was the congressman who introduced a bill to send all Africans back to Africa...which failed BTW. And as for Thunder with his silly 4 year thing...yes it was there for 4 years because before that WE WERN'T AT WAR YOU DUNDERHEAD! They had to have something to ride into battle with...it's an age-old tradition you know...or perhaps you don't know.
 
Risky Thicket said:
The US Flag flew over US slave ships. The US Flag flew over ships that often brought slaves to America from Africa and/or transported them from New York and other northern ports to ports in the South. The Confederate flag never flew over a slave ship.
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That is a half truth, because the importation of slaves became illegal before the Confederacy existed. Therefore, it was impossible for the Confederate flag to fly over a slave ship.
 
coolwalker said:
Lincoln was the congressman who introduced a bill to send all Africans back to Africa...which failed BTW. And as for Thunder with his silly 4 year thing...yes it was there for 4 years because before that WE WERN'T AT WAR YOU DUNDERHEAD! They had to have something to ride into battle with...it's an age-old tradition you know...or perhaps you don't know.
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Actually, the flag I would choose to ride into battle with would be solid Blue, with a large red middle finger on it. Good thing the Confederacy didn't think of that because then we would all be called racists today.... White, Black, Native American.... You name it. Think of ONE person who has not flipped the middle finger at someone during their lifetime. :mrgreen:
 
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Thunder said:
only official flags should fly on govt. property.
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Eventually you have no clue about American history.

The Confederate Flag is the Symbol of the South....Except it.

There are many other countries around the world, that have old flags flying in cities from past historical meanings. In England, Italy, France, Germany. They have many more flags flying on their goverment properties, besides their primary national flag.

So get over it. Go eat an ice cream cone
 
Thunder said:
and of course you have evidence for this?
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I can't find the quote I remember reading atm but here is a bit of evidence that he prefered to keep the Union together and was willing to leave slavery intact...

In his inaugural address, delivered on March 4, 1861, Lincoln proclaimed that it was his duty to maintain the Union. He also declared that he had no intention of ending slavery where it existed, or of repealing the Fugitive Slave Law -- a position that horrified African Americans and their white allies. Lincoln's statement, however, did not satisfy the Confederacy,
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pbs.org
 
soccerboy22 said:
I mean, I understand the history of the flag, but it is just a symbol. It has as much power as we give it.
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That's true.

What's also true is that this issue isn't simple, as has been claimed.
 
Moderator's Warning:
No personal attacks please. If they continue there will be consequences.
 
http://www.constitution.org/csa/ordinances_secession.htm

from the Texas declaration of secession:

WHEREAS, The recent developments in Federal affairs make it evident that the power of the Federal Government is sought to be made a weapon with which to strike down the interests and property of the people of Texas, and her sister slave-holding States, instead of permitting it to be, as was intended, our shield against outrage and aggression; THEREFORE,

from the Virginia declaration of secession:

and the Federal Government having perverted said powers not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern slave-holding States

...yeah, slavery had nothing to do with the Civil War.

;)
 
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dixiesolutions said:
Eventually you have no clue about American history.

The Confederate Flag is the Symbol of the South....Except it.

There are many other countries around the world, that have old flags flying in cities from past historical meanings. In England, Italy, France, Germany. They have many more flags flying on their goverment properties, besides their primary national flag.

So get over it. Go eat an ice cream cone
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I think that if you'll read more carefully, you'll see that many people posting are doing just that--excepting it. ;)
 
Thunder said:
from the Texas declaration of secession:

WHEREAS, The recent developments in Federal affairs make it evident that the power of the Federal Government is sought to be made a weapon with which to strike down the interests and property of the people of Texas, and her sister slave-holding States, instead of permitting it to be, as was intended, our shield against outrage and aggression; THEREFORE,

from the Virginia declaration of secession:

and the Federal Government having perverted said powers not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern slave-holding States

...yeah, slavery had nothing to do with the Civil War.

;)
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That is not the issue here, Thunder. I accept that slavery was the main reason for the Civil War, but that the reason for the Confederate flag being flown by some is much more complicated than that, and I gave my reasons in the original post, which you should read. It is not kosher to attempt to change the parameters of a discussion, once it has been posted.
 
danarhea said:
Actually, the flag I would choose to ride into battle with would be solid Blue, with a large red middle finger on it. Good thing the Confederacy didn't think of that because then we would all be called racists today.... White, Black, Native American.... You name it. Think of ONE person who has not flipped the middle finger at someone during their lifetime. :mrgreen:
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...ah, maybe a guy with no hands?
 
dixiesolutions said:
Eventually you have no clue about American history.

The Confederate Flag is the Symbol of the South....Except it.

There are many other countries around the world, that have old flags flying in cities from past historical meanings. In England, Italy, France, Germany. They have many more flags flying on their goverment properties, besides their primary national flag.

So get over it. Go eat an ice cream cone
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consider it done
 
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