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Thread: Perry once defended Confederate symbols

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    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I don't think there's anything to this story except what the credulous and those who rush to judgment make of it. If you can find evidence that Perry is a racist, please produce it. His father joining a hunting lease that had an old rock with an offensive word on it on the land just doesn't do it for me.

    If you're aware of racist political decisions that Perry has made or racist remarks, I'd be interested to learn what they are.
    I'm not saying he's a rascist or not. I'm only asserting that being associated with these two racially charged stories will be enough to drag him down and out. Call me a cynic, but the truth of these matters doesn't really count one way or the other, perception does. His campaign has been sliding for weeks now, and this might just be the swan song into irrelevancy.
    "A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

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    Re: Perry once defended Confederate symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I don't think there's anything to this story except what the credulous and those who rush to judgment make of it. If you can find evidence that Perry is a racist, please produce it. His father joining a hunting lease that had an old rock with an offensive word on it on the land just doesn't do it for me.

    If you're aware of racist political decisions that Perry has made or racist remarks, I'd be interested to learn what they are.
    Perry's hunting lodge is not even the topic of this thread, but since you have chosen to inject it into our discussion, I am more than happy to talk about it. True, when Perry was younger, his father bought a hunting lodge called Niggerhead, but painted over that word when he took over. That makes it pretty much a non-story, does not show racism, and not even worthy of discussion.

    Back to the topic of Confederate symbols.
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    Re: Perry once defended Confederate symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The Emancipation Proclamation-as I recall-only applied to the confederacy
    somewhat correct, as total the abolition of slavery came with the 14th Amendment in 1865.

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    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Perry's hunting lodge is not even the topic of this thread, but since you have chosen to inject it into our discussion, I am more than happy to talk about it. True, when Perry was younger, his father bought a hunting lodge called Niggerhead, but painted over that word when he took over. That makes it pretty much a non-story, does not show racism, and not even worthy of discussion.

    Back to the topic of Confederate symbols.
    Ok... so I'll admit I'm looking at the broader context. I daresay Perry is a part of the discussion, as he is in the title after all...

    Here's the point: non-story or not, Rick Perry's name has been tossed around in the media with a lot of **** this week, including the stars and bars story and the hunting cabin story. He's not going to smell too good even if it wasn't his **** in the first place.

    And besides, being the good Yankee that I am... who would want to fly the flag of the losing side anyway Didn't this all get settled 150 years ago?
    "A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

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    Re: Perry once defended Confederate symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I am really torn on this one. True, the Confederate flag represents slavery to most people, as the primary purpose in the South's secession was their insistence that they had the right to slavery. But it goes much deeper than that. The Stars and Bars also represents the South's view that the North supported slavery too.... The kind of slavery that comes with one region imposing it's will on another. Yea, I know, I know, it's not the same thing, but there was a culture in the South that saw the big Government of the North as a dictator. In that sense, the Confederate flag represents small government. From the Revolution onward, the South was the poster child for smaller government, and has always been.

    To the KKK'ers who fly the Confederate flag, **** you. I know what kind of people you are. To the others who fly it, you have my blessing. I understand that the Confederate flag represents a philosophy of smaller government that is returning, after having been.... gone with the wind.... Yea, had to rip that line to set up my closing statement. As much as I detest Rick Perry, I see no problem with his supporting Confederate symbols. As for the politically correct who want to ban those symbols, frankly, I don't give a damn.

    Article is here.
    I believe that the only flag an American should fly is the American flag, so that's my only issue with the confederate flag.

    I do not view it as some sort of symbol of slavery and racism like a lot of the PC-tards do. We do not look at the British flag of the 18th century as a symbol of oppression. We do not accuse someone running a British style pub in the US with British flags of being a supporter of British Oppression or British rule. But yet anyone flying a confederate flag is accused of being a racist, support of slavery, a inbred redneck hillbilly or a KKK scumbag.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Perry once defended Confederate symbols

    The confederate flag cannot be disassociated from slavery, as slavery was the central issue of the confederacy. Perry is a dimwit who's 15 minutes are up.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: Perry once defended Confederate symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    State secession is no more legal then that it is today.
    Not true, Texas v White left room for secession "through revolution, or through consent of the States".
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    Re: Perry once defended Confederate symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    I have the US Constitution sitting in front of me. Please cite the Article & Section that stipulates how a state might go about seceding from the Union. Thanks.
    Sorry I inadvertently left the section number out of a previous post.

    I will begin, Thunder, by saying you have cited NOTHING, you have provided no sources and thus you have no compelling argument. "Because Thunder believes it" is no argument. You will never convince anyone of anything if you simply present your opinions as facts. You damn sure won't convince me. CITE YOUR SOURCES.

    I would point your attention to the Constitution to Article 1, Section 8. There you will find all delegated authority assigned to the federal government.
    You will find ALL the delegated authority to the federal government under the Constitution at the time of the War Between the States. What you will not find is any law prohibiting secession.

    Let me explain. You may very well lie in your bed at night and pee straight up in the air. You may do it frequently as far as I know or you may not do it at all. I am aware of no law saying that you cannot do it. Therefore it is not illegal. As distasteful and depraved as it might be, there is to my knowledge no law against doing so. How does that work for you? No law = Not illegal.

    In the absence of any language whatsoever regarding secession we are thus left to review laws, treaties and the like. To help end your torment and confusion I provided reference to the Declaration of Independence. I followed that with reference to the Treaty of Paris, 1783. You responded to neither. How did you find the Treaty of Paris not supportive of my position, that secession was not against the Constitution? That it was not illegal?

    Here then is yet another source for you, as you cannot seem to find any, The Tenth Amendment:

    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
    Last edited by Risky Thicket; 10-05-11 at 01:30 AM.










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    Re: Perry once defended Confederate symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Not true, Texas v White left room for secession "through revolution, or through consent of the States".
    Way to blow your own argument out of the water.

    TvW found that TX's secession was "absolutely null. They were utterly without operation in law. The obligations of the State, as a member of the Union, and of every citizen of the State, as a citizen of the United States, remained perfect and unimpaired. It certainly follows that the State did not cease to be a State, nor her citizens to be citizens of the Union."

    Texas v. White - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Perry once defended Confederate symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Way to blow your own argument out of the water.

    TvW found that TX's secession was "absolutely null. They were utterly without operation in law. The obligations of the State, as a member of the Union, and of every citizen of the State, as a citizen of the United States, remained perfect and unimpaired. It certainly follows that the State did not cease to be a State, nor her citizens to be citizens of the Union."

    Texas v. White - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    From the ruling:

    When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States.
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