More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

Thunder · Oct 11, 2011

Grant said:
...We have recent evidence that there is open racism at the OWS, on this thread in fact, while there was no demonstration of racism during the tea party protests....

right. calling Obama a Kenyan Muslim Communist had nothing to do with racism. using Hispanic immigrants as a scapegoat has nothing to do with racism. accusing ALL Muslims of terrorism, has nothing to do with racism.

your dishonesty on this matter is stunning.

Grant · Oct 11, 2011

Boo Radley said:
No. Affirmative action says you cannot give an unfair advantage to any group. Too many as we've seen on the other thread have no idea what Affirmative action actually says. Misinformation dies a slow, slow death.

You said

Try programs that give an unfair advantage to one group over another.

That pretty much explains Affirmative Action, regardless of any good intentions.

dirtpoorchris · Oct 11, 2011

Maybe all these "occupy" people should protest the ATF till it gets shut down....

sangha · Oct 11, 2011

Grant said:
Will you be keeping the reason for this 'hypocrisy' to yourself as well, just as your reasons for the OWS protest?

Your straw man got pwned and now you're trying to hide the fact behind an ad hom. All you've got is ad homs, straw men, and other dishonest tactics.

We have recent evidence that there is open racism at the OWS, on this thread in fact, while there was no demonstration of racism during the tea party protests.

No, it never happened

Then let's see them. Please provide a link.

Tea Party Getting Violent? 10 House Dems Report Threats, Vandalism - Crimesider - CBS News

Sex, drugs, and unsanitary conditions common at Occupy Wall Street protests | National News - The BIG One - WTAM 1100 There are dozens of similar stories.

That story was HILARIOUS. Only the dishonest rightwingers would believe such nonsense.

It's also a legal right. But when that goes too far people look for alternatives, which is also a human and legal right, so far.

You're babbling now. Try to make some sense :lamo

I haven't seen anyone propose the idea of slavery in the United States. Do you have a link?

I see you have a problem understanding figurative speech. The rightwing is filled with illiterate morons :lol:

Then perhaps the OWS crowd can get out there and start creating some jobs. What's holding them back?

Another dishonest straw man. You really are getting desperate

No, it was not a lie.

And delusional

Certainly many of these people voted for Barrack Obama, they seem the type, so if they were against his policies, or the Dodd- Frank Bill, they would be protesting at the White House. I don't judge their intentions or bipartisanship by a single poster.

Of course you don't. Rightwingers are determined to dishonestly misportray the protests. That's been my point all along, and you have been a perfect example that proves me right.

So you do know their intentions but just don;t want to say. Is that correct?

You are wrong, again. As always.

sangha · Oct 11, 2011

Thunder said:
right. calling Obama a Kenyan Muslim Communist had nothing to do with racism. using Hispanic immigrants as a scapegoat has nothing to do with racism. accusing ALL Muslims of terrorism, has nothing to do with racism.

your dishonesty on this matter is stunning.

Grant is actually believing that there is rampant sex and drug going on in Zucotti Park, which is surrounded by police. The rightwing morons will believe anything as long as it fits in with their bigoted notions :cuckoo

Boo Radley · Oct 11, 2011

Grant said:
You said

That pretty much explains Affirmative Action, regardless of any good intentions.

Again, no it doesn't. It is your misunderstanding of Affirmation Action that makes you think it does. it doesn't. All that is required by law with AA is that you prove you did not disciminate due to race. I can't help that you have been msinformed.

Grant · Oct 11, 2011

GhostlyJoe said:
I'm saying no such thing. My point is clear: Asinine behavior exists on both sides. Pretending otherwise is pure posturing.

That bad behavior exists is hardly newsworthy, but we can also look at proportions. What similarities and differences to you see between the Tea Party crowds and the OWS crowds? Are they the same? Live videos, and there are plenty, tell the difference.

Tea partiers have in fact been arrested in isolated incidents. One conviction in particular I can recall involved a threat to Rep. Buccieri. There were other instances of uncouth behavior, inane rants, offensive signage. You exaggerate the differences, noting that minor arrests are often a goal of protesters.

Then lets see them rather than just making the claims. Do they compare at all with the number of arrests by the OWS crowd?

Public workers have negotiated contracts; strikes are uncommon.

That's often because the politicians give in to the pressure because they are giving out taxpayers money rather than their own. The Obama Administration is still hiring government workers and giving money and power to the unions in order to get their votes. Its an obvious conflict of interest and too many Americans don't seem to care about it. The corruption is evident and its manifesting itself in different ways now because this administration has, understandably in my view, little respect for the American electorate.

Of course there are job creators. But I also understand the use of rhetoric and crafted messages. Job creators is a strategic term meant to win sympathy.

That might be your own feelings your dealing with and that's something which cannot be debated.

Obama's been pragmatic in negotiations at times, more idealist in '08-'09 and again recently. He's clearly a calculating politician, so he's a pragmatist when it suits his needs.

Exactly. But he is not so pragmatic when it comes to the country's needs.

WSO is an idealist movement, as is the tea party.

The motives of the Tea Party are quite clear, as is their message. I don't see where the WSO is being idealistic at all. That word has become much abused recently and is an obvious attempt to excuse all sorts of anti social behavior.

Grant · Oct 11, 2011

Thunder said:
right. calling Obama a Kenyan Muslim Communist had nothing to do with racism. using Hispanic immigrants as a scapegoat has nothing to do with racism. accusing ALL Muslims of terrorism, has nothing to do with racism.

your dishonesty on this matter is stunning.

Where is all of this coming from? That has not been under discussion and I have no idea who you're referring to. Perhaps you're on the wrong thread.

sangha · Oct 11, 2011

Grant said:
That bad behavior exists is hardly newsworthy, but we can also look at proportions. What similarities and differences to you see between the Tea Party crowds and the OWS crowds? Are they the same? Live videos, and there are plenty, tell the difference.

The difference is that the rigthwingers can only get a crowd on a weekend and need corporate funding and media promotion in order to get attention. OWS is a real grass roots movement that takes no corporate money and is not promoted by any major media network.

Then lets see them rather than just making the claims. Do they compare at all with the number of arrests by the OWS crowd?

Teabaggers make threats of violence and make no sacrifice besides going to a picnic on a weekend. OWS protesters make no threats, and sacrifice their time 24/7, and risk jail to protest unjust laws and do so without using violent or racist language

Rightwing Authoritarians just don't understand civil disobedience. They're so ignorant, they think the "disobedience" part means "obey all laws" :lamo

That's often because the politicians give in to the pressure because they are giving out taxpayers money rather than their own. The Obama Administration is still hiring government workers and giving money and power to the unions in order to get their votes. Its an obvious conflict of interest and too many Americans don't seem to care about it. The corruption is evident and its manifesting itself in different ways now because this administration has, understandably in my view, little respect for the American electorate.

The wingnuts are so delusional they think that 6.9% of the population are deciding elections

That might be your own feelings your dealing with and that's something which cannot be debated.

No, it's how the rightwing authoritarians pretend that it's the big corporations who are creating jobs, when the facts is it's the american worker who creates jobs in this country. Corporations just ship those jobs overseas to China

The motives of the Tea Party are quite clear, as is their message. I don't see where the WSO is being idealistic at all. That word has become much abused recently and is an obvious attempt to excuse all sorts of anti social behavior.

So is this the message of the teabaggers?

Or is this the message?

Or this?

sangha · Oct 11, 2011

Grant said:
Where is all of this coming from? That has not been under discussion and I have no idea who you're referring to. Perhaps you're on the wrong thread.

The rightwingers have to pretend they don't understand anything. The pretend that they don't know what the protesters want. They pretend they don't know what the protests are about. They prentend they don't know about the violent threats of the teabaggers. They pretend they don't know about the racist acts by the teabaggers. They pretend they don't know what civil disobedience is.

Their ignorance knows no bounds

Grant · Oct 11, 2011

Boo Radley said:
Again, no it doesn't. It is your misunderstanding of Affirmation Action that makes you think it does. it doesn't. All that is required by law with AA is that you prove you did not disciminate due to race. I can't help that you have been msinformed.

I really don't want to debate the merits, or shortcomings, of Affirmative Action because I support the idea. We can clearly see it has been abused over the years but has also done a great deal of good.

That would apply as well to Corporations, which was under discussion at the time.

Thunder · Oct 11, 2011

Grant said:
Where is all of this coming from? That has not been under discussion and I have no idea who you're referring to. Perhaps you're on the wrong thread.

you claimed that there is no racism in any tea-party protests. I was simply exposing the dishonesty of your silly claim.

sangha · Oct 11, 2011

Thunder said:
you claimed that there is no racism in any tea-party protests. I was simply exposing the dishonesty of your silly claim.

Grant pulled out the race card, and the he pretends that racism is not part of the discussion

Boo Radley · Oct 11, 2011

Grant said:
I really don't want to debate the merits, or shortcomings, of Affirmative Action because I support the idea. We can clearly see it has been abused over the years but has also done a great deal of good.

That would apply as well to Corporations, which was under discussion at the time.

We have a thread on it, and no. Your misunderstandings don't equal a valid comparison. It is also not an issue of good or bad. it is more whether we should or not, use our money to prop up corporations. If you want to argue that good is the standard for what we do, then government can get involved in all kinds of ways I'm sure you won't support.

Grant · Oct 11, 2011

Thunder said:
you claimed that there is no racism in any tea-party protests. I was simply exposing the dishonesty of your silly claim.

If I claimed something, why not offer up the quotes? You should know how the system works by now.

Grant · Oct 11, 2011

Boo Radley said:
We have a thread on it, and no. Your misunderstandings don't equal a valid comparison. It is also not an issue of good or bad. it is more whether we should or not, use our money to prop up corporations. If you want to argue that good is the standard for what we do, then government can get involved in all kinds of ways I'm sure you won't support.

I think the Obama administration has done a great disservice too the American people by getting involved with big corporations and using public money to do so. It is the scandal of the age, the worst in American history, and will someday be recognized as such. An investigation should be started immediately.

The idea that a President could pour billions of tax dollars into a huge variety of companies and corporations, with little public oversight, would have been unthinkable not all that long ago. Now the American people are many trillions of dollars in debt with absolutely nothing to show for it, and no way of paying it back. It is a disgrace.

sangha · Oct 11, 2011

Grant said:
I think the Obama administration has done a great disservice too the American people by getting involved with big corporations and using public money to do so. It is the scandal of the age, the worst in American history, and will someday be recognized as such. An investigation should be started immediately.

The idea that a President could pour billions of tax dollars into a huge variety of companies and corporations, with little public oversight, would have been unthinkable not all that long ago. Now the American people are many trillions of dollars in debt with absolutely nothing to show for it, and no way of paying it back. It is a disgrace.

But it was great when bush* and the republicans did it!!! :roll:

sangha · Oct 11, 2011

Grant said:
If I claimed something, why not offer up the quotes? You should know how the system works by now.

You pulled out the race card

Grant said:
Such as Affirmative Action?

Now try and deny it

Thunder · Oct 11, 2011

Grant said:
If I claimed something, why not offer up the quotes? You should know how the system works by now.

Grant said:
...We have recent evidence that there is open racism at the OWS, on this thread in fact, while there was no demonstration of racism during the tea party protests....

denying your own posts, is pretty pathetic.

1Perry · Oct 11, 2011

GhostlyJoe said:
Hypocrisy crosses party lines. Surely you guys don't believe conservatives are above this kind of behavior.

Just off the top of my head:

-- Decrying political correctness and claiming to defend the constitution while demanding that Muslims not exercise freedom of religion if its near ground zero.

This was a bipartisan at the best position. NYC overall was against them building a mosque. There isn't enough "conservatives" in NYC to make a bit of a difference. (they should be able to)

-- Championing the tea party as "great Americans" exercising their constitutional freedoms while denigrating the Occupy Wall Streeters and Wisconsin protesters as thugs for doing the same thing.

As far as your arguement here, I agree. It's O.K. to state your opposition, but protest from one side is just as "American" as from another.

The Marxist, Communist arguements are pretty stupid.

-- Demanding that nobody should care what CEOs and very wealthy people earn while decrying teachers' "gold-plated benefits."

Sorry, we veer somewhat here. I care less what a CEO makes as long as they have not required public support to keep his job. We should have put the CEO's who got a bail out on a salary similiar to what a public employee would have made. There is only so much public money to go around. If one wants to pay teachers more (which is a valid arguement) it must be taken from somewhere else). This is the problem I have. The idea that it's a good idea to pay them more with no regard that this money actually has to come from somewhere.

-- Ridiculing "politically correct" language while rolling out politically loaded terms like "death panels" and "job creators."

Other countries do have death panels. If the government in the end is going to run health care, we are going to have death panels. You know, I support this. There is going to be rationing where someone decides that no your 89 year old grandma is not going to get a transplant. Call it what you want but it's enevitable and IMO it's best to just call it what it is.

So many view their political opponents with close-minded orthodoxy. It's politically effective. It's simple. But it's not accurate or constructive -- at least not if we're interested in pragmatic governance.

Bottom line though is that we basically agree.

1Perry · Oct 11, 2011

Grant said:
I think the Obama administration has done a great disservice too the American people by getting involved with big corporations and using public money to do so. It is the scandal of the age, the worst in American history, and will someday be recognized as such. An investigation should be started immediately.

The idea that a President could pour billions of tax dollars into a huge variety of companies and corporations, with little public oversight, would have been unthinkable not all that long ago. Now the American people are many trillions of dollars in debt with absolutely nothing to show for it, and no way of paying it back. It is a disgrace.

I agree but Bush allowed it to happen.

sangha · Oct 11, 2011

1Perry said:
This was a bipartisan at the best position. NYC overall was against them building a mosque. There isn't enough "conservatives" in NYC to make a bit of a difference. (they should be able to)

You're drowning in the rightwing BS stereotype that NYC is all liberal dems. We've have years of rightwing mayors, and governors. We regularly vote for republicans. But the bottom line was that the opposition to the mosque came from the republican right.

Sorry, we veer somewhat here. I care less what a CEO makes as long as they have not required public support to keep his job. We should have put the CEO's who got a bail out on a salary similiar to what a public employee would have made. There is only so much public money to go around. If one wants to pay teachers more (which is a valid arguement) it must be taken from somewhere else). This is the problem I have. The idea that it's a good idea to pay them more with no regard that this money actually has to come from somewhere.

And that's similar to what OWS is protesting

Other countries do have death panels. If the government in the end is going to run health care, we are going to have death panels. You know, I support this. There is going to be rationing where someone decides that no your 89 year old grandma is not going to get a transplant. Call it what you want but it's enevitable and IMO it's best to just call it what it is.

That's a completely inane argument. Other nations (Iraq, Aghanistan, Syria, USSR) have had elections. That doesn't mean elections will lead the US to implement the same policies as they have

Grant · Oct 11, 2011

sangha said:
You pulled out the race card

Now try and deny it

Any mention of affirmative action, whether one is for it or against it, is the 'race card'?

Incredible!

sangha · Oct 11, 2011

Grant said:
Any mention of affirmative action, whether one is for it or against it, is the 'race card'?

Incredible!

I predicted you would deny it. :lamo

Grant · Oct 11, 2011

Thunder said:
denying your own posts, is pretty pathetic.

Show me something that occurred during the tea party protests and I'll be proven wrong.

More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

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