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Thread: More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

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    Isn't civil nonviolent disobedience the tried and true method for effecting political change? I mean, agree or disagree with the protesters and their demands, but from a distance it would appear to be an effective demonstration. Were some of the protesters instigating unlawful behavior? Undoubtedly. Was the police response too aggresive? Perhaps - but predictable nonetheless.
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    Re: More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

    This is spontaneous populism


    This is not
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    Re: More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Street's book is highly sourced. Paul even went to local Tea Party group meetings to see what it was about and, like Chomsky, had at that time false impressions that there was any sort of grassroots base to it.

    Now, unless you can present some evidence which shows this grassroots nature - something nobody has ever been able to present - then go for it. But the fact that you have to whine about Paul's politics instead of addressing what we're talking about exposes the fact that you are wrong and just don't want to admit it.
    No see, unlike you whom have probably never attended an actual Tea Party event, instead taking the word of dumbasses like Chomsky, or Street, who have their own agenda, I have been, and see nothing of the sort that you describe.

    The thing that get's you people that are against the Tea Party is that you have no real way to discredit it because of its un organized nature and true grassroots beginnings, just scares the hell out of real astroturf nuts like those created, and manipulated by the leftist thugs that want to destroy this country in favor of failed social constructs like communism, and socialism....Remember, your tactics are exposed now, we see you.

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    Re: More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Street's book is highly sourced. Paul even went to local Tea Party group meetings to see what it was about and, like Chomsky, had at that time false impressions that there was any sort of grassroots base to it.

    Now, unless you can present some evidence which shows this grassroots nature - something nobody has ever been able to present - then go for it. But the fact that you have to whine about Paul's politics instead of addressing what we're talking about exposes the fact that you are wrong and just don't want to admit it.



    "The Tea Party portrayed in this book is not a social movement, but rather a loose conglomeration of partisan interest groups set on returning the Republican Party to power. Despite protestations to the contrary, the Tea Party is Astroturf and partisan Republican to the core. We find little to no evidence that it is a manifestation of local populism. It is not an "uprising" against a corrupt political system or against the established social order. Rather, it is a reactionary, top-down manifestation of that system, dressed up and sold as an outsider rebellion set on changing the rules in Washington. Far from being antiestablishment, the Tea Party is, we feel, a classic, right-wing, and fundamentally Republican epitomy of what the formerly left policial commentator Christopher Hitchens once called "the essence of American politics": "the manipulation of populism by elitism" (emphasis added)..."
    Street, Paul and Dimaggio, Anthony. Crashing the Tea Party. p.10
    I didn't whine about anybodys politics, I think you have me mixed up or misunderstood.

    What you quoted isn't that far from my purely observational assessment.

    There are artificial aspects, but there is an element of the group at present NOT behaving in a manner those who did the original astroturfing intended.

    Hence my "Kochensteins Monster" reference.

    My claims as to a prior existence are based on info posted here, and the fact that existing groups were co-opted, which your quote says as well.

    We're on the same side here. I actually think I'm FARTHER on your side than you are and we're just failing to communicate.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

    Quote Originally Posted by nijato View Post
    Isn't civil nonviolent disobedience the tried and true method for effecting political change? I mean, agree or disagree with the protesters and their demands, but from a distance it would appear to be an effective demonstration. Were some of the protesters instigating unlawful behavior? Undoubtedly. Was the police response too aggresive? Perhaps - but predictable nonetheless.
    I saw no billy clubs, no one injured, just those refusing to follow the orders of the Police being arrested after several warnings, and issued a summons to appear in court...Wow, that is harsh.....

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac
    No see, unlike you whom have probably never attended an actual Tea Party event, instead taking the word of dumbasses like Chomsky, or Street, who have their own agenda, I have been, and see nothing of the sort that you describe.
    I've been to a few Tea Party events, including attending some local meetings. They're extremely top-down and hierarchical.

    The thing that get's you people that are against the Tea Party is that you have no real way to discredit it because of its un organized nature and true grassroots beginnings
    This statement has already been discredited.

    Quote Originally Posted by what if...?
    I didn't whine about anybodys politics, I think you have me mixed up or misunderstood.
    I was quoting j-mac there.

    My claims as to a prior existence are based on info posted here, and the fact that existing groups were co-opted, which your quote says as well.

    We're on the same side here. I actually think I'm FARTHER on your side than you are and we're just failing to communicate.
    Right wing groups existed. The Tea Party did not; it was manufactured from the top down by corporate interests and the media (including the liberal media - NYT and MSNBC played a huge role in its creation), and perhaps absorbed other pre-existing groups that were, however, not the Tea Party. But there was never any grassroots base to it.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 10-03-11 at 03:42 PM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    I've been to a few Tea Party events, including attending some local meetings. They're extremely top-down and hierarchical.



    This statement has already been discredited.



    I was quoting j-mac there.



    Right wing groups existed. The Tea Party did not; it was manufactured from the top down by corporate interests and the media (including the liberal media - NYT and MSNBC played a huge role in its creation), and perhaps absorbed other pre-existing groups that were, however, not the Tea Party. But there was never any grassroots base to it.
    And the only proof you have is other radical leftists saying such...Yeah, now there is real proof.....pfft....You're discredited.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    This is spontaneous populism...
    nothing spontaneous about a pre-planned march organized through social-media.

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    Re: More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Right wing groups existed. The Tea Party did not; it was manufactured from the top down by corporate interests and the media (including the liberal media - NYT and MSNBC played a huge role in its creation), and perhaps absorbed other pre-existing groups that were, however, not the Tea Party. But there was never any grassroots base to it.
    I don't think it started that way. I think the Tea Party did start as an honest, grass roots campaign against large government. However, I think it was very quickly captured by the body politic and now is nothing more than a propaganda machine.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    I've been to a few Tea Party events, including attending some local meetings. They're extremely top-down and hierarchical.



    This statement has already been discredited.



    I was quoting j-mac there.



    Right wing groups existed. The Tea Party did not; it was manufactured from the top down by corporate interests and the media (including the liberal media - NYT and MSNBC played a huge role in its creation), and perhaps absorbed other pre-existing groups that were, however, not the Tea Party. But there was never any grassroots base to it.
    OK.

    There's enough evidence of artificiality for this to be the case.

    Do you see the phenomenon I'm referring to where the tea party is causing problems for the very entities resposible for their existence?

    I've NEVER seen a significant divide in the GOP before.

    I think the existence od the tea party could COST the Republicans the next election.

    By alienating the independents elections swing on.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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