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Thread: More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

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    Re: More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Then let's go "beyond outside thinking".

    How do you change the pattern unless honest people with a proven track record are elected? Is there another way?
    We have to get money out of politics to get that to happen. That's why many on the left support public financing of campaigns.
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    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
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    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    We will never have this in our lifetimes because people are imperfect.

    But we can set high standards for ourselves, as far as we are capable, and demand the same of our media, elected leaders, our government and others.

    Only when the people feel themselves second rate will they accept governments who are second rate. A well informed public will elect good leaders and will not accept mediocrities.
    Perfect? No, i'm not seeking perfection. I'm seeking a better way to acheive better results. That starts with us actually demanding more. Not demanding the media affirm our beliefs, but that asks tough questions, not about birth certificants and being AWOL, but about truth and facts, even if it doesn't affirm our belief systems. Demanding our leaders tell the truth, which also means that they admit they can't affect change wiithout help, as they are not kings. And that people be willing to listen to complicated and nuanced answers more than they want platitudes and easy sound bites.

    We can get closer to this, do a better job of this. But it has to start with the voter, and not the politiican.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    We have to get money out of politics to get that to happen. That's why many on the left support public financing of campaigns.
    Money is certainly an issue.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

    Occupy L.A. Speaker: Violence will be Necessary to Achieve Our Goals

    If so, they lose.

    The PJ Tatler Occupy L.A. Speaker: Violence will be Necessary to Achieve Our Goals

    Before anyone starts, I'm not claiming that this guy represents anyone. Just noting, if violence starts, the country turns against them.

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    Re: More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Occupy L.A. Speaker: Violence will be Necessary to Achieve Our Goals

    If so, they lose.

    The PJ Tatler Occupy L.A. Speaker: Violence will be Necessary to Achieve Our Goals

    Before anyone starts, I'm not claiming that this guy represents anyone. Just noting, if violence starts, the country turns against them.
    Of course, it wouldn't benefit anybody...well except Wall Street. The news would be about those violent protestors instead of massive income equality and government/corporate corruption.

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    Re: More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Perfect? No, i'm not seeking perfection. I'm seeking a better way to acheive better results. That starts with us actually demanding more. Not demanding the media affirm our beliefs, but that asks tough questions, not about birth certificants and being AWOL, but about truth and facts, even if it doesn't affirm our belief systems. Demanding our leaders tell the truth, which also means that they admit they can't affect change wiithout help, as they are not kings. And that people be willing to listen to complicated and nuanced answers more than they want platitudes and easy sound bites.

    We can get closer to this, do a better job of this. But it has to start with the voter, and not the politiican.
    Yes, it has to start with the voter for sure, but too many voters appear to follow bumper stickers, posters, and campaign slogans. The politicians know that well, of course, and will take advantage. Too many of them are not unlike evangelists.

    It is always, ultimately, about money and keeping an eye on it.

    But who can follow the money now when its being shipped away to the national capitol hundreds or thousands of miles away where a largely uncontrollable bureaucracy and self promoting politicians then have access to it?.

    Government (and thus our money and their accountability), as Tocqueville noted a couple of centuries ago, should be as close to home as possible. There will be more money being thrown around, which might be fine while people think its someone else's money, until we must all finally demand that it stop.

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    Re: More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Perfect? No, i'm not seeking perfection. I'm seeking a better way to acheive better results. That starts with us actually demanding more. ...
    We can get closer to this, do a better job of this. But it has to start with the voter, and not the politiican.
    You can also, demand less. Specifically, if you believe government cannot do certain things for whatever reason, there is also the alternative of taking that responsibility and revenue from them, and returning it to the states, or to citizens. Look at China. Their economy, middle class, and civil rights, boomed when government did LESS in terms of centrally planning their economy.

    And there is no need to look at this through a partisan lens. Think management of a corporation. Sure, authoritarian, hierarchical management works, and in some cases works best, but for an intellgient, proactive work force that can handle the industry, it may work best to take some of that power from the top (government, management), and empower the individual work groups, workers, etc. Power to the people, no?
    Last edited by Mach; 10-12-11 at 07:13 PM.

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    Re: More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

    To me they seem rather dubious.

    What's their point?

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    Re: More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    You can also, demand less. Specifically, if you believe government cannot do certain things for whatever reason, there is also the alternative of taking that responsibility and revenue from them, and returning it to the states, or to citizens. Look at China. Their economy, middle class, and civil rights, boomed when government did LESS in terms of centrally planning their economy.

    And there is no need to look at this through a partisan lens. Think management of a corporation. Sure, authoritarian, hierarchical management works, and in some cases works best, but for an intellgient, proactive work force that can handle the industry, it may work best to take some of that power from the top (government, management), and empower the individual work groups, workers, etc. Power to the people, no?
    There are a lot of real differences between a country and corporation, and I certainly wouldn't want us to think of the country as a business. Never. Also, while China did less, they still do a whole lot moe than we do. So, there may well be a place where government plays a role, and where it doesn't. Absolutes rarely pan out. I would prefer more pragmatic problem solving.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: More than 700 arrested in Wall Street protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Yes, it has to start with the voter for sure, but too many voters appear to follow bumper stickers, posters, and campaign slogans. The politicians know that well, of course, and will take advantage. Too many of them are not unlike evangelists.

    It is always, ultimately, about money and keeping an eye on it.

    But who can follow the money now when its being shipped away to the national capitol hundreds or thousands of miles away where a largely uncontrollable bureaucracy and self promoting politicians then have access to it?.

    Government (and thus our money and their accountability), as Tocqueville noted a couple of centuries ago, should be as close to home as possible. There will be more money being thrown around, which might be fine while people think its someone else's money, until we must all finally demand that it stop.
    Not as much as I disagree with local spending as I note we had serious problems there in a lot of areas which led to it moving away. We must understand that before we start just making those generalizations. Local governments have not been perfect either. And even if we agreed to move more back that way tomorrow, we'd have to address those past problems.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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