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Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

Antiderivative said:
Nope, but I don't using the CIA to execute people without ever charging them.

Why is charging people with a crime all of a sudden considered being a jihad sympathizer?

You people are disgusting.
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We don't charge people with crimes in wars. We seek them out and kill them.
Killing an enemy combatant on the battlefield is not an execution. It is a killing. It is not unlawful even if the target is an American citizen. If he is on the battlefield (in this case in an enemy convoy) then he is a legitimate target.

If you prefer that the CIA and US military not target you then try real hard not to be an enemy combatant in an enemy convoy on a battlefield.
 
Thrilla said:
i think you all need to step back and reexamine your positions...


folks aren't hitler-like statists when they think that killing a terrorist during a war is a great thing.....

folks aren't hippy terrorist sympathizers when they think that having an assassination list that includes American citizens is horrible thing...........
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Which is to grossly whitewaash things. And misstate them. Al-Dirtbag was an officer in the military of the enemy, not in our custody, considered to be on enemy soil at the time we bombed him, from where he had planned and based missions against citizens of the United States.etc. That trumps everything else. There is nothing that alters his status as a viable military target in those circumstances. Nothing.
 
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VanceMack said:
I cant speak for others but personally I think you are a terrorist sympathizer based on your own words. I think you are a hypocrite for speaking so harshly of murder and execution and assassination and evil and yet refusing to state that the author of such crimes should be removed from office. I think you are a fool for clinging to the notion that terrorists in Yemen deserve some sort of due process or that 'charging them in absentia' is some sort of powerful means of fighting terror (wait..fighting terror would be my gig...you believe terrorism is an act of empathy).
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I think you are a ****ing idiot who hates the rule of law.
 
Misterveritis said:
We don't charge people with crimes in wars. We seek them out and kill them.
Killing an enemy combatant on the battlefield is not an execution. It is a killing. It is not unlawful even if the target is an American citizen. If he is on the battlefield (in this case in an enemy convoy) then he is a legitimate target.

If you prefer that the CIA and US military not target you then try real hard not to be an enemy combatant in an enemy convoy on a battlefield.
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Then charge people with a crime. CHARGE them with a crime.

CHARGE them with a crime.

CHARGE them with a crime.

CHARGE them with a crime.
 
This place hates the rule of law and thrive off of vigilantism.

I have never been so disgusted in my life.
 
Thrilla said:
what branch did you serve in?.. unit?
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Father spent 25 years in the navy, just as my brother did, grandfather, and greatgrandfather. I spent 20 years in the AF. 7 deployments to the middle east; multiple FOBs including 3 in Sa, 2x to Turkey, 1 UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, and Oman. Courier duty throughout the middle east in outposts w/out names. Conventional air frames for 12 years; classified comm systems for 8. Weeks in locations most people cant find on a map with a laptop, remote satellite, and a radio. Been through bombed out buildings. Picked up the body parts. Nothing more significant than any other of the millions that have served. 2 children now serving. 1 just got back from Iraq in July. Intelligent to recognize that not all muslims are terrorists but extremist muslims that are terrorists must be eliminated. Good enough, warhorse?
 
Antiderivative said:
I believe that people should be charged with a crime before their punishment.
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In criminal proceedings, me too.

Antiderivative said:
My stances that people should be presumed innocent before guilty has been attacked as being a terrorist sympathizer.
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A presumption of innocence occurs when a crime has been committed. We do not presume enemy combatants are innocent. Innocence and guilt are not an issue in war. One kills people and breaks their things until they are defeated.

Antiderivative said:
I have never been so disgusted in America in all my life. You people think that I am a terrorist sympathizer for simply upholding the rule law.
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Criminality -- War. You have chosen the wrong standard to apply to this situation.
. . .
Antiderivative said:
I have never sympathized with terrorists, but I sympathize with the rule of law. However, I have been ridiculed for supporting the rule of law.

I am simply flabbergasted.

If you people are sincere in your sentiments, then go report me to the FBI.
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And yet there is post 324...
I view terrorism as an act of empathy.

Chew on that.​
 
Thrilla said:
i think you all need to step back and reexamine your positions...


folks aren't hitler-like statists when they think that killing a terrorist during a war is a great thing.....

folks aren't hippy terrorist sympathizers when they think that having an assassination list that includes American citizens is horrible thing.

this black and white "you're evil and i'm good" bullsh*t is not cool.
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So...killing terrorists is a GOOD thing...right (Assuming terrorism is actually a bad thing and not an empathetic act of course)? And a terrorist, dedicated to killing innocent and unarmed men women and children...should be eliminated? Just not terrorists who were born in the USA. They are entitled to some form of effective yet undefined due process and until that point they are served they should NOT be dealt with? The illogical leap is astounding.
 
VanceMack said:
Father spent 25 years in the navy, just as my brother did, grandfather, and greatgrandfather. I spent 20 years in the AF. 7 deployments to the middle east; multiple FOBs including 3 in Sa, 2x to Turkey, 1 UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, and Oman. Courier duty throughout the middle east in outposts w/out names. Conventional air frames for 12 years; classified comm systems for 8. Weeks in locations most people cant find on a map with a laptop, remote satellite, and a radio. Been through bombed out buildings. Picked up the body parts. Nothing more significant than any other of the millions that have served. 2 children now serving. 1 just got back from Iraq in July. Intelligent to recognize that not all muslims are terrorists but extremist muslims that are terrorists must be eliminated. Good enough, warhorse?
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Now THAT was a smackdown !! Thank you for your service. I hope your kids are faring well.
 
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Thrilla said:
i think you all need to step back and reexamine your positions...
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Okay. Done.

Thrilla said:
folks aren't hitler-like statists when they think that killing a terrorist during a war is a great thing.....
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War is the operative word. This was not a criminal proceeding. It is the prosecution of a war.

Thrilla said:
folks aren't hippy terrorist sympathizers when they think that having an assassination list that includes American citizens is horrible thing.
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Words mean things. This was not an assassination. It was a killing. Warriors kill enemy combatants and break their things all the time. It is what warriors do in wars. If one has no desire to be killed and to have one's things broken then don't be an enemy combatant in an enemy convoy on a battlefield. Stay at home and post on Debate Politics instead.

Thrilla said:
this black and white "you're evil and i'm good" bullsh*t is not cool.
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If you say "I empathize with cold blooded murderers of innocent people" do you expect to get a pass?
 
Antiderivative said:
This place hates the rule of law and thrive off of vigilantism.

I have never been so disgusted in my life.
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Then life is going to be a real bitch for you, as your inability to keep ignorance from clouding an understanding of basic good and evil, of protecting those and what you love, is poisoning whatever common sense you were given by God, and which the Founders hoped you would use.
 
I love how I am considered a terrorist for upholding the rule of law.
 
Antiderivative said:
I love how I am considered a terrorist for upholding the rule of law.
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When you start upholding the "rule of law", we'll be the first to LYK. What you are doing is perverting the rule of law so as to benefit those who wish to do us harm.

Big difference.
 
Misterveritis said:
LOL. Well maybe we do. Or maybe we don't.
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i'm not opposed to a good spanking when i've been a bad, bad boy :lamo

seriously though.. this whole " you're a terrorist lover".. " no, you're neo-con fascist" schtick is old and tired.... and it get's us nowhere but pissed off at each other.

i'm not sure why there can't be a civil debate over the legalities and solutions to a contentious issue like this one.
it's not like terrorists still won't be smoked if we did away with official hit lists.. or added a mechanism for oversight to the list.
and it's not like folks are saying we shouldn't take out terrorists.

the devil is in the details... always.

i'm completely comfortable in taking out America's enemies.. having been intimately involved in doing so since the late 60's, i'm not shy about pulling a trigger.
I'm not completely comfortable with having a presidential hit list that includes American citizens.. I simply do not trust the US government to operate an assassination program that is unchecked by anybody outside of the NSC.

I don't need or want them to publish their evidence on the NYT front page.. but i need to know checks and balances are in place and their finding are legal and ethical.
the Administration at least needs to pretend to honor that which I have given an oath, and most of my lifetime, to protect and defend.. the Constitution.
when serious legal question arise out of our policies, their needs to be serious looks at them... and not our usual SOP of " i'm the Prez, so i can do what i want".

there's a solution to be found that makes everyone comfortable.. maybe not happy... but comfortable
 
VanceMack said:
Father spent 25 years in the navy, just as my brother did, grandfather, and greatgrandfather. I spent 20 years in the AF. 7 deployments to the middle east; multiple FOBs including 3 in Sa, 2x to Turkey, 1 UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, and Oman. Courier duty throughout the middle east in outposts w/out names. Conventional air frames for 12 years; classified comm systems for 8. Weeks in locations most people cant find on a map with a laptop, remote satellite, and a radio. Been through bombed out buildings. Picked up the body parts. Nothing more significant than any other of the millions that have served. 2 children now serving. 1 just got back from Iraq in July. Intelligent to recognize that not all muslims are terrorists but extremist muslims that are terrorists must be eliminated. Good enough, warhorse?
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Wow, I am impressed.

I lived the life, talked the talk and walked the walk for twenty years in the Army. I did one or two interesting things.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Now THAT was a smackdown !! Thank you for your service. I hope your kids are faring well.
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Thanks for voting and being a citizen. Its all the same to me. Ive spent 8 years now since my retirement putting soldiers and families back together...but I also work with civilians who have experience the worst kinds of combat...family life. Its all just a thing.

Id still LOVE to hear how this whole 'due process' thing works for a terrorist. Served in absentia...tried in absentia...THEN killed? Or just kill the non-US born terrorists that are responsible for slaughtering men women and children.
 
Don't worry, the mods agree that upholding the rule of law is a an act of terrorism.

I was wrong, and you people are right.
 
Misterveritis said:
Wow, I am impressed.

I lived the life, talked the talk and walked the walk for twenty years in the Army. I did one or two interesting things.
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I have no doubt. I usualy dont talk at all about it...point of fact thats the first time since Ive been on this site that I listed any of it. Its just a thing....not that unusual. Glad you made it. I work with soldiers and families now. Its going to be an interesting next decade considering the ops tempo all the services have been through since GW1.
 
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