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Thread: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    You do not get to decide what the Constitution is. If you believe there is a flaw you change it, you don't ignore it.

    I imagine a change to allowing the removal of rights for those who can be shown to be fighting with the enemy would pass. As I said, the courts have ruled that just by calling them an enemy does not remove their rights.
    You and I shall always disagree on this point. Not a big deal. Let's move on to kill the next one.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    (Reuters) - American militants like Anwar al-Awlaki are placed on a kill or capture list by a secretive panel of senior government officials, which then informs the president of its decisions, according to officials.


    **** this!!!! We can not allow some secretive panel decide who gets constitutional protections and who doesn't.

    Secret panel can put Americans on kill list' | Reuters

    There is no public record of the operations or decisions of the panel, which is a subset of the White House's National Security Council, several current and former officials said. Neither is there any law establishing its existence or setting out the rules by which it is supposed to operate.

    Total bull****. And to think, people thought Bush tampled on our rights. (not that he didn't)
    "Neither is there any law establishing its existence or setting out the rules by which it is supposed to operate." wtf

    This is crap that you can only imagine in a bad movie.
    Last edited by jasonxe; 10-07-11 at 06:00 AM.



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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I don't agree. But you may opine as you wish.
    How do you declare war without a declaration of war? You can engage in military operations without a declaration of war, but that's not the same as declaring war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    The issue is not a big government versus a small government. It is a constitutionally-limited government versus tyranny by bureaucrat.
    And yet the Constitution says that only Congress may declare War. But we've subverted that part to allow the President near free reign with the military; which is not a constitutionally-limited government. As I said, big government probably won't mind so much.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    How do you declare war without a declaration of war? You can engage in military operations without a declaration of war, but that's not the same as declaring war.

    And yet the Constitution says that only Congress may declare War. But we've subverted that part to allow the President near free reign with the military; which is not a constitutionally-limited government. As I said, big government probably won't mind so much.
    I think you're taking the term, " 'War' on Terrorism" a bit too literally. When Congress declares War, it declares it upon another country. Terrorism is not a country nor is it the entirety of another country. Terrorism is located in many nations but does not constitute the entire population of any one nation nor does Terrorism represent the official position of any nation. Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan may "seem" like exceptions but they don't quite fit the bill.

    So since you cannot find the country, "Terrorism" on a map or anywhere on a list of UN nations, Congress cannot formally declare War on it. This is not a subversion of the Constitution; the Constitution simply doesn't account for it.
    Last edited by EagleAye; 10-07-11 at 05:06 PM.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    How do you declare war without a declaration of war? You can engage in military operations without a declaration of war, but that's not the same as declaring war.
    I think a simple authorization to the President to use force to resolve the issue is sufficient. I also think that absent that funding the war for year after year is also assent.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    I think you're taking the term, " 'War' on Terrorism" a bit too literally.
    No, I'm taking the term "Declare War" literally, as it was said that since WW II, the US government has declared war in many ways. Which is untrue as we have not officially declared war since WW II. Even on things not "War on Terror". We've attacked sovereign countries without declaration of war. Terrorists may be able to hide out in many places, however, taking out say the sovereign government of Iraq had nothing to do with that. In fact, that was war against another sovereign nation without declaration of war.

    There are many limitations within the Constitution, and those limitations were there for a reason. I happen to be of the mind that using those limitations is wise.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I think a simple authorization to the President to use force to resolve the issue is sufficient.
    And that is expansion of government, and government uncontrolled by the constraints of the Constitution, my Big Government Backing friend.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, I'm taking the term "Declare War" literally, as it was said that since WW II, the US government has declared war in many ways. Which is untrue as we have not officially declared war since WW II. Even on things not "War on Terror". We've attacked sovereign countries without declaration of war. Terrorists may be able to hide out in many places, however, taking out say the sovereign government of Iraq had nothing to do with that. In fact, that was war against another sovereign nation without declaration of war.

    There are many limitations within the Constitution, and those limitations were there for a reason. I happen to be of the mind that using those limitations is wise.
    You know what, I would prefer the US didn't go dropping bombs on sovereign nations too. I would prefer it if nations with a terrorist presence took care of it themselves. Take a look at the Philippines and Jordan. Both have a terrorist presence and they've done quite a good job of smashing hard on that presence. The US is not dropping bombs on either country. Isn't that nice?

    I know what the counter-argument will be: "But they're allies of the US and that's why the US isn't there." Yes, a strange coincidence isn't it? Countries inimical to the US, that wouldn't shed a tear if the US "suffered a mishap," tend to also be the ones who place mass-murderers in palaces and otherwise provide them with a safe-haven. One might confuse this with harboring and supporting Terrorism. And if that terrorist publicly announces he intends to kill Americans (or anyone else) that's like keeping a weapon specifically intended for use on the US (or anyone else), even though they never declared war. That's...not nice, is it?

    It doesn't matter so much that they don't like us. It matters more that they are keeping what amounts to a weapon of mass destruction in the form of a malignant human mind, available for use as a weapon against the citizens of the USA. What's unique about the terrorist mind as a weapon is the hosting nation can use this weapon upon innocents over an over again and claim that it made no attack upon the US or other nations, thus eliminating the possibility of "legal retribution."

    That's what they're hoping for anyway. They hope that the American sense of fair play, of "due process," of following legal procedures rigidly, will paralyze us into inaction. If we stuck rigidly to constitutional doctrine as you suggest, we could only do anything "after" terrorist attacks are already killing innocents. Its playing straight into their hands and we will have absolutely no other recourse other than just take it and suffer quietly like little pansies. If we demonstrate a little flexibility and foresight, we can destroy that human weapon "before" it is employed. When doing this we have a responsibility to destroy that weapon with absolutely minimum foreign civilian casualties, but we must be certain that we do it.

    The terrorists "want" us to be stuck. They "want" us to wring our hands and whine pitiably, uncertain what action to take because the Constitution doesn't tell us what to do. They "want" us to stand on our "moral high ground" while they are allowed to kill innocent after innocent with absolute impunity. They believe we have no common sense at all and if we place "their" rights above the rights of "our own innocents," we will have proven them correct.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And that is expansion of government, and government uncontrolled by the constraints of the Constitution, my Big Government Backing friend.
    We will have to disagree on this point.

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