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Thread: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Well...we COULD (and your scenario we would have to) just pull back, lock down the borders, and leave it to the other countries to deal with it. Im fine with that...so long as they dont target US interests. There is a reason why we do it...
    Again, I'd go further in saying I'm fine with that so long as they don't target the US proper.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    [QUOTE=donsutherland1;1059846545]
    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    That is NOT his position.
    At last check it is his position. The article posted at the beginning of this thread stated:
    Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul is condemning the Obama administration for killing an American born al-Qaida operative without a trial.

    But that is NOT what you said.

    Rep. Paul, among a few others, that the U.S. cannot target military objectives who happen to be U.S. citizens is so absurd
    Do you understand the differences here?

    To keep this as simple as possible:
    There is no going forward until you understand the arguement and quit making them up to argue against.
    Last edited by 1Perry; 10-04-11 at 09:21 PM.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    You know exactly what my position is. Is it the same as killing OBL? No, but you know that. You refuse to acknowledge he was an American citizen
    with Constitutional protections.
    His citizenship cannot and did not shield him from being a legitimate target in this war. War is the standard. Not criminality. That is my point.
    Imagine that. I actually agree with something the one term Marxist president Obama did.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I recognize no war without a Declaration of War. Otherwise it's police action, which is highly suspect to start with.
    Fortunately it does not require your agreement. Congress has declared war in a wide variety of ways since WWII. No specific method is required.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    His citizenship cannot and did not shield him from being a legitimate target in this war. War is the standard. Not criminality. That is my point.
    Imagine that. I actually agree with something the one term Marxist president Obama did.
    Criminality is not what our rights are based on. They just are. The situation does not decide rights. You have them, period until they are taken away by due process.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post



    Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul is condemning the Obama administration for killing an American born al-Qaida operative without a trial.
    But that is NOT what you said.
    It is what I said. Put very simply, military objectives can be targeted. They do not require a trial. Rep. Paul suggests that Mr. Awlaki could not legally have been targeted, that he required a trial. That is, as I said, an absurd view.

    There is no going forward until you understand the arguement and quit making them up to argue against.
    I'm making nothing up. Rep. Paul offered an interpretation of the constitution that is wrong. Mr. Awlaki was a military objective and could legitimately have been targeted. No trial was necessary due to his combatant status. That Mr. Awlaki happened to be a U.S. citizen does not change that.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 10-05-11 at 12:24 AM.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    His citizenship cannot and did not shield him from being a legitimate target in this war. War is the standard. Not criminality. That is my point.
    That is correct. As Mr. Awlaki was properly a combatant, the protections afforded criminal suspects are irrelevant.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    It is what I said. Put very simply, military objectives can be targeted. They do not require a trial. Rep. Paul suggests that Mr. Awlaki could not legally have been targeted, that he required a trial. That is, as I said, an absurd view.
    Look, all you had to say was that you weren't complete in your thoughts.....I do it often times. The above is correct. Paul does not believe he should have been targeted without due process. That is very different than saying he didn't think he should have been targeted.

    I'm making nothing up. Rep. Paul offered an interpretation of the constitution that is wrong. Mr. Awlaki was a military objective and could legitimately have been targeted. No trial was necessary due to his combatant status. That Mr. Awlaki happened to be a U.S. citizen does not change that.
    I've posted the links. The USSC has ruled that being labeled an enemy combatant does not strip you of your rights.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Fortunately it does not require your agreement. Congress has declared war in a wide variety of ways since WWII. No specific method is required.
    No, Congress has not declared War in a wide variety of ways since WWII, since WW II was the last time that Congress declared war. It's very stupid in fact to say that they have declared war in a wide variety of ways when they have not actually declared war. No, what they have done in a wide variety of ways is to authorize POLICE action. Very different. To declare war...you have to declare war. I thought that would be self explanatory, but I guess it's not. The military has been called into use without declaring war since WW II.

    Those of us who believe in small government think that the government should follow the Constitution and not usurp new powers for itself. And thus if the US wants to be at war, small government backers would say that it requires the Congress to declare war since only Congress has that ability. But you large government folk probably don't mind so much.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    That is correct. As Mr. Awlaki was properly a combatant, the protections afforded criminal suspects are irrelevant.
    So now when we engage in police action we can call people "combatant", and it's cool for our government to kill them even if they are a US citizen? No trial, no nothing? I think it's a bit suspect. And besides, we have Writ of Reprisal.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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