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Thread: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    if matters of guilt and innocence are not considered, why has the administration made the case to the public that this guy is guilty as charged and his killing is justified?
    What if guilt was clearly established, but sharing the details would expose US agents? I understand that your peace of mind is important, and it is, but is it worth getting an American agent killed?

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post

    Look, when the crap hits the fan, do us the favor,
    I love that phrase, or at leas its more earthy cousin, when the sh*t hits the fan. No matter where you are you are not gonna like it. It is a mess. But some people know how to deal with it. And other wring their hands and hope they are doing the right thing.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    My best guess is that they do not trust the American people to know the difference between war and criminality. The Obama administration has muddied those waters.
    well, that would be a big problem... but i don't believe it to be the case.

    I think this administration, and the last, are employing hybrid tactics... they are fighting a war, sure, but they utilize basic criminal doctrines to do so, in some cases ( m most notably, individual targeted killings).
    basic criminal doctrine has the focus on the crimes of the individual , war doctrine find it roots in affiliation ( enemy armies/states).
    the war on terror finds us having to reconcile both war and criminality and create a whole new hybrid doctrine.... we have no real choice, this is the bed we made.

    this conflict of ours cannot be construed as simple war.... and it cannot be construed as simple criminality.
    and , unfortunately, our laws don't provide for a seamless integration of the two... neither does humanitarian law or international law.

    I think both administration are having/have had some snafus along the way.... but that's to be expected when you are, quite frankly, making sh*t up as you go along.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    What if guilt was clearly established, but sharing the details would expose US agents? I understand that your peace of mind is important, and it is, but is it worth getting an American agent killed?
    the devil is in the details here...

    when you say guilt is clearly established... well, that's an issue that can have it's own thread.
    established by whom?.. according to what metrics or standards? the findings ensured by whom?

    take, as an example, this targeted killing list.... we are told that person X is the new al queada leader .. and as usual, he's just as bad, if not worse, than OBL.. we are told that he is not just an angry dude talking sh*t and hanging out with suicide bombers, but he has gone "operational" he's building bombs and training minions to do evil things to innocent people... he's gonna slaughter people left and right if we don't stop him right this very minute ( or in a year or so) and is therefore public enemy numero uno and marked for death.

    well, sounds good.. sounds like common sense to me.. bad guy is evil, and we're gonna kill bad guy.
    but we don't even take a second to think... what did this guy do?.. how do they know he did it?... has a disinterested party fact-checked them?...
    hell, we don't even know what it takes to make the list.... none of here do.
    a bit absurd, but this super villain might have just banged the sister or wife of a CIA field agent and pissed him off .. and <bam> a mountain of evidence appears.

    now, do i want an agent to get killed over my piece of mind?.. nah, of course not...but then again , if asking our government to operate within it's stated limitations and rules is an affront to my piece of mind, then yes... he can get killed every day and twice on Sunday if it means we are ensuring we are doing the greater good for our nation..

    every terrorist in the world can attack us simultaneously, and they can't do the lasting damage that f*cking with our Constitution and rule of law can do.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I love that phrase, or at leas its more earthy cousin, when the sh*t hits the fan. No matter where you are you are not gonna like it. It is a mess. But some people know how to deal with it. And other wring their hands and hope they are doing the right thing.
    .. and here you guys are.. dealing with terrorism the same way we all are... by posting on the internet.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Perhaps. I believe it is not relevant. He was an unlawful enemy combatant. He was on the enemy's side. He was in an enemy convoy. He was an enemy. And this is a war.
    a valid opinion... not backed by law or fact, but valid nonetheless.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    .. and here you guys are.. dealing with terrorism the same way we all are... by posting on the internet.
    Do you believe this is all there is?

    In real life I am a manager, one level below a director, with 70 engineers. I work on a program that is directly related to our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan...when I am not posting on the Internet.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    a valid opinion... not backed by law or fact, but valid nonetheless.
    Which fact do you disagree with?
    Do you thing he was NOT an unlawful enemy combatant?
    Do you believe he was NOT on the enemy's side (what was he doing in Yemen then)?
    Do you believe he was NOT in an enemy convoy?
    Do you believe we are NOT in a war with Islamofascists?

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Which fact do you disagree with?
    Do you thing he was NOT an unlawful enemy combatant?
    Do you believe he was NOT on the enemy's side (what was he doing in Yemen then)?
    Do you believe he was NOT in an enemy convoy?
    Do you believe we are NOT in a war with Islamofascists?
    the answers are...
    yes, he's an unlawful combatant, as so declared by the administration.

    no, Yemen has nothing to do with "their side".. according to both administrations, "their side"= anywhere in the world, there are no geographical boundaries.
    Yemen, however, is not a designated battlefield, which is why the CIA was tasked to take him out

    yes, he was in a convoy of cars going to breakfast... unfortunately, the convoy wasn't targeted, he was.

    and no, we are not at war with "islamofascists"...
    the AUMF only give authority to conduct operations pertaining to those parties who had a hand in the terrorist acts of 9/11.. it gives no broad authorization to engage "Islamofascists","Islamocommunists" ," Islamocapitalists" or Islamo-democratic-socialists-who-lean-a little-more-to the-left-than-normal-democratic-socialists"

    but mostly, I take exception to your opinion of " I believe it's irrelevant"

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    the answers are...
    yes, he's an unlawful combatant, as so declared by the administration.

    no, Yemen has nothing to do with "their side".. according to both administrations, "their side"= anywhere in the world, there are no geographical boundaries.
    Yemen, however, is not a designated battlefield, which is why the CIA was tasked to take him out

    yes, he was in a convoy of cars going to breakfast... unfortunately, the convoy wasn't targeted, he was.

    and no, we are not at war with "islamofascists"...
    the AUMF only give authority to conduct operations pertaining to those parties who had a hand in the terrorist acts of 9/11.. it gives no broad authorization to engage "Islamofascists","Islamocommunists" ," Islamocapitalists" or Islamo-democratic-socialists-who-lean-a little-more-to the-left-than-normal-democratic-socialists"

    but mostly, I take exception to your opinion of " I believe it's irrelevant"
    Okay. I see we disagree on important elements.

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