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Thread: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    The question to ponder is was Goebbel's a viable military target. Not what would have happened had we actually caught him.

    Do not look to me if folks here, who claim to be one thing, are otherwise embracing liberal stupidity. I thank God that my common sense still keeps me from such.

    And lest I forget, there are some claimed liberals in this thread who have been spot-on. Kudos to them. They are possibly closet Conservatives, and we'll bring them around yet !
    well, i'm done with you... I want no part of your partisan idiocy.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    actually, we filed extradition papers with Yemen for this guy.
    not having an extradition clause in a treaty does not mean they won't extradite.... Yemen's government has been working pretty closely with us ( a lot of back scratching going on)
    we handle their Al Queda problem ( Al Queda is trying to amass land and it's pissing off some powerful tribes) and we take care of their local rivals... and they allow us to float our predators around killings things.

    this cat here had dual citizenship.. US and Yemen... Yemen actually tried him (in absentia) before they said " bring him in dead or alive".
    as backwards as Yemen is, they got that little detail right.
    As I mentioned, it is not politically wise for Yemen to have these things go such that they are seen fully in bed with us. Its one thing to drop a bomb on the guy and make him DRT (dead right there). That alone is a pretty decent submission of sovereignty. But to have Yemeni soldiers die trying to apprehend teh guy, and then maybe getting him, and then turning him over to the Yanks, is far less politically viable for these folks.

    I do not think there is a Conservative here who does not understand the issue. The difference is that Conservatives just plain make better military leaders. We don' t dither like libs. The only valid disagreement should be that you want to put a flower on his grave, and I want to piss on it. Either way he is dirt-napping. My afterthought makes his grass greener, btw.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    well, i'm done with you... I want no part of your partisan idiocy.
    You know the drill. Don't let the door hit you ........

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    Anwar al-Awlaki gave up his rights when joined Al-Qaeda as an enemy combatant and planner of attacks on our people,
    anyone who does this deserves to die straight up.

    I consider them to be like rioters who are subject to being shot on sight.
    this is a valid and understandable opinion.... but i'm a bit more interested in legal facts.

    this is an interesting topic to me... in that i'm interested in constitutional powers and rights and such.
    it's easy to opine that a dude deserves to die for his actions... but our government, as you should know, does not operate on emotional opinions, it operates on laws. arguably, it does an extremely shoddy job of operating within it's limits, but it's still interesting to dive into fleshing this stuff out.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    True, but we cannot know in advance how long it would take. McKinley died over 100 years ago; our judicial system has changed substantially since then. Since we were "out of presidents" *ahem* after the assassination, Czolgosz did not pose an ongoing danger to the American people, and a trial could proceed at whatever pace was required. al-Awlaki was not under US custody when a trial "could have occurred" and so time (or the lack thereof) was still forcing the hand of US authorities.
    He was targeted a year ago.

    Who's to say there wasn't? There very well could have been one, but held behind closed doors to maintain operational secrecy. And if there was one, we would not know about it for many years as it may cause a rift, already wider than the current one, between the US and Yemen. Personally, I'm guessing there wasn't one. I imagine a "law expert," possibly a judge, was brought in and the evidence presented to him. It was deemed that the US had a good enough case to warrant action, and so the US did. We'll never know the name of this expert because his safety is also important, and so that foreign US-based intelligence services cannot capture and interrogate him. And you can be certain they have no qualms about torture.
    Secrecy is as problematic as is killing U.S. citizens without due process. The stories say that White House lawyers were consulted.

    We may be at an impasse on this, but I will offer this:

    I've been considering my words and wondering how they could be misused. Certainly if the "special circumstance" option is offered too liberally, it could lead to abuse. It would be like placing a steak in front of a dog and expecting him not to eat it. So I would suggest the following in the case of American terrorists with a history of mass-killings and a proven willingness to continue attacks:
    We have nothing that shows that he contributed in mass killings in any form other than offering encouraging words to those who those who did. As I noted earlier, we refused to even charge those who were preaching anarchy.

    - If an American terrorist is located on US soil or on the soil of provably friendly nations (e.g., "Great Britain"), the terrorist must be apprehended by non-lethal means if at all possible and brought to trial. If the terrorist is killed in the effort, it must be proven that death was the only option or the agency (or agents) will face judicial action.

    - If an American terrorist is located in a country that is hostile to the US or is NOT provably friendly (e.g., "Pakistan") where evidence must collected via intelligence services in lieu of standard police practices, the terrorist may attacked with lethal force without standard following the normal legal proceedings.

    Would that be an acceptable compromise?
    I guess I'm not sure what you mean by normal legal proceedings. I understand that if found guilty the only viable option here was a bomb dropped on his head.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    this is a valid and understandable opinion.... but i'm a bit more interested in legal facts.

    this is an interesting topic to me... in that i'm interested in constitutional powers and rights and such.
    it's easy to opine that a dude deserves to die for his actions... but our government, as you should know, does not operate on emotional opinions, it operates on laws. arguably, it does an extremely shoddy job of operating within it's limits, but it's still interesting to dive into fleshing this stuff out.
    This situation is one where something "must be done" but "normal" judicial procedures are made impotent. Perhaps new laws are needed here to deal with this precedent.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    Anwar al-Awlaki gave up his rights when joined Al-Qaeda as an enemy combatant and planner of attacks on our people,
    anyone who does this deserves to die straight up.

    I consider them to be like rioters who are subject to being shot on sight.
    I started to post a reply and then re-read your post. It's not worth replying to.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    As I mentioned, it is not politically wise for Yemen to have these things go such that they are seen fully in bed with us. Its one thing to drop a bomb on the guy and make him DRT (dead right there). That alone is a pretty decent submission of sovereignty. But to have Yemeni soldiers die trying to apprehend teh guy, and then maybe getting him, and then turning him over to the Yanks, is far less politically viable for these folks.
    odd how you take Yemeni politics into consideration, but completely disavow any argument as to US constitutional rights and law.

    I do not think there is a Conservative here who does not understand the issue. The difference is that Conservatives just plain make better military leaders. We don' t dither like libs. The only valid disagreement should be that you want to put a flower on his grave, and I want to piss on it. Either way he is dirt-napping. My afterthought makes his grass greener, btw
    this is the partisan idiocy i'm talking about... this is just you jerking yourself off using your conservative ideology as lube.
    there is not one factual offering in this paragraph...not one original thought.. not one lick of brains.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    You have just cited plenty of evidence that this scumbag towelhead was certainly as a minister of propaganda. Maybe he did not pull the trigger or push the button that sent a round through an American, or dropped a bomb on them. For some unfathomable reason, except the liberlism is always stuck-on-stupid IMMHO, libs are looking for the literal smoking gun, and even then claim it matters whether the finger on the trigger was once "American" or not.

    OK. Joseph Goebbels. He of Nazi fame. What of him ? Not an American ever, but just a simple propaganda minister.
    He should have been gave a trial if he hadn't killed himself. If we targeted him as part of the war effort, it would have been irrelevant to this discussion.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    careful with the liberal comments.... me and Perry1 are not far apart on this issue, and i'm sooo not a contemporary liberal.
    I think liberal is a 4 letter word.

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