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Thread: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    impeachment is not the only remedy... not sure why you are trying to pidgeonhole everyone into either supporting impeachment or the status quo.
    those are options, sure, but they aren't the only options.

    and no, not everything the President does is subject to congressional review.... every now and then Congress wants answers and the Prez says no... that's when the courts get involved.
    Everything the President does is subject to Congressional review, if they so choose. Impeachment is the ultimate review. If the President refuses to release documents or fails to provide answers, he can be impeached.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Your position is insane. No where did I even imply such. For instance, when someone kills you, they are still prosecuted by the state, acting on your behalf. The exceedingly valid legal point is that a "right" is defined only when someone tries to take it from you. That is when you find its boundaries, by challenging the action in Court. If you go to check a right, or the Court to seek its terms, they look to exisitng rulings.
    my position is insane?.... hate to tell you bro, but that wasn't my position... that was me representing your position as you typed it out.
    choose your words more carefully if you don't want confusion.
    I still think your position on rights is garbage.. but this really isn't the thread to hash that out.
    The "lack of standing" was not the plaintiff's. It was acknowledging a "lack of standing" by the judiciary in recognition of the Constitutiuonal power of the Executive, and the law-making power of the Legislative.
    Judge bates did, in fact, rejected the fathers standing to bring suit... among other things.
    i'm having trouble finding hte actual 83 page decision that is supposedly out there.... but the NYT states
    The judge largely agreed with the government’s arguments. First, he rejected the father’s standing to sue, saying Mr. Awlaki could pursue such a case himself if he surrendered to American authorities — adding that there was no indication that Mr. Awlaki had sought the lawsuit.
    Ruling Allows U.S. Effort to Kill Awlaki in Yemen - NYTimes.com



    It was included in earlier posts by me and others. I do not know how much you will find on such, but here is a blurb:
    yeah, that's the stuff i was going off when i tried ot find out about this hearing... no luck, not enough information.
    the closest thing i've come across is a hearing in March about the legalities of using predator drones to target people... but Blair wasn't a witness at tht hearing, so i think it's the wrong one.
    I'll let you know if i find the right one






    I believe John Adams would be most approving. For starters, he had endured the Revolution, where then Tories had fought for the King. They were targeted all the same. I realize that was pre-Constitution. However, Adams showed a distinct break with how some here now view the Constitution with the infamous Alien and Sedition Acts, where American citizens were imprisoned soley for being what we would call being vocally critical of elected officials. A far lower standard than conducting military operations against "Americans" while a member of the military of the enemy, and from a physical position of being on enemy soil.
    .. he was also know for his defense of the british soldiers over the boston massacre.. in which he displayed his respect for the rule of law over the passions thrown at an enemy.
    either way, it's pure speculation, on our part, as to who would be supportive of this or not

    Frankly, I believe I just shredded every aspect of your argument.
    i'm sure you believe that... and i'm sure i'm not interested in your personal opinion of your own arguments.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Everything the President does is subject to Congressional review, if they so choose. Impeachment is the ultimate review. If the President refuses to release documents or fails to provide answers, he can be impeached.
    2 words for you... Executive Privilege
    it's an established component of the Separation of Powers doctrine.

    in short, your position is incorrect.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    2 words for you... Executive Privilege
    it's an established component of the Separation of Powers doctrine.

    In short, your position is incorrect.
    Impeachment proceedings can be brought for any offense - there is no requirement in the Constitution that it can only be for "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors"; these are merely the circumstances under which removal from office is obligatory - although, because the process is so cumbersome and time-consuming, it is rarely used and is limited to "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors".
    American constitution - Impeachment

    Nuh-uh. The President can be impeached for anything, including utilizing his Executive Privilege. If that weren't the case, the President would answer to no one.

    In 1973, the House Judiciary Committee found that executive privilege does not extend to an impeachment inquiry, and in fact cited refusal to comply with a subpoena issued by Congress in the course of an impeachment inquiry in its Articles of Impeachment against President Nixon.”Article III charged that President Nixon, by failing, without lawful cause or excuse and in willfull disobedience of the subpoenas of the House, to produce papers and things that the Committee had subpoenaed in the course of its impeachment inquiry, assumed to himself functions and judgments necessary to the exercise of the constitutional power of impeachment vested in the House.”
    Executive privilege does not apply in an impeachment inquiry Takoma Park Impeach Bush & Cheney
    Last edited by MaggieD; 10-02-11 at 01:50 PM.
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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    my position is insane?.... hate to tell you bro, but that wasn't my position... that was me representing your position as you typed it out.
    choose your words more carefully if you don't want confusion.
    I still think your position on rights is garbage.. but this really isn't the thread to hash that out.
    Bull**** Thrilla. You chose to restate something in quotes which I did not say. I then proceeded to shred what you did. Having to rephrase and misquote others, as you did, so as to then ridicule, is low-brow in my book.

    Judge bates did, in fact, rejected the fathers standing to bring suit... among other things.
    i'm having trouble finding hte actual 83 page decision that is supposedly out there.... but the NYT states

    Ruling Allows U.S. Effort to Kill Awlaki in Yemen - NYTimes.com
    But the Judge went further, did he not ? Did he not state that the Judiciary lacked standing in the exercise by the Executive in performing the duties of CIC ?

    yeah, that's the stuff i was going off when i tried ot find out about this hearing... no luck, not enough information.
    the closest thing i've come across is a hearing in March about the legalities of using predator drones to target people... but Blair wasn't a witness at tht hearing, so i think it's the wrong one.
    I'll let you know if i find the right one
    Regardless, and a point I think often missed here, is that Congress has kept itself well-briefed, and more importantly, has not been constrained in acting in a number of ways here. And it has chosen not to attempt to take from the President this authority. We have no evidence that the President has acted as a "loose cannon". Further, like it or not, we know that the military must at times react very quickly to targets-of-opportunity, and not as we see within the criminal justice system. I want commanders who do not dither at key moments.

    .. he was also know for his defense of the british soldiers over the boston massacre.. in which he displayed his respect for the rule of law over the passions thrown at an enemy.
    either way, it's pure speculation, on our part, as to who would be supportive of this or not
    Which would bolster my point, if anything, that being the ability of the military to act more spontaneously than normal due-process would invite. The Brits were the military, responding to a threat. However, in that incident, Adams acted as a lawyer, not as an elected official, much less a debate about Constitutional rights. I raise the Founders as it was liberals, or libertarians, earlier in the topic, who claimed the Founders would be appalled at the sanction of the dirtbag. I clearly beg to differ

    i'm sure you believe that... and i'm sure i'm not interested in your personal opinion of your own arguments.
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    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 10-02-11 at 01:56 PM.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    American constitution - Impeachment

    Nuh-uh. The President can be impeached for anything, including utilizing his Executive Privilege. If that weren't the case, the President would answer to no one.



    Executive privilege does not apply in an impeachment inquiry Takoma Park Impeach Bush & Cheney
    Well researched and said Mags. Some folks here need to be smacked-down when they continuously talk out of their rectum.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    you didn't address a single thing I said... not one.
    You have to start by measuring with the right ruler. Having begun wrong there is no way to correct your error. Piece by piece won't do it.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Impeachment is the ultimate review.
    Election is the ultimate review, I think. :-)

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    If the right is hell-bent on impeachment, let them go for it. I predict it will work out about the same as trying to impeach Clinton did in 1999. The voters got sick of the GOP putting their partisanship ahead of the country's welfare and turned control of the Senate over to the Dems and severely reduced the GOP majority in the House in 2000.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    I served as well my friend. With the best.

    I do not know that we will ever be privy to all here. However, there is a process. I do not have the time to dig, but at least a few of the earlier links reference findings presented by the CIA. There was at least one House hearing on this last year when Al-Dirtbag was designated for sanction. Every Court that hs looked at this so far has ruled that the Executive does have this authority. And lastly, we need to be more finite in the use of the word "assassinate". Military targets are just that, they are "targeted". While "assassinate" can be used to describe almost any killing where we actually aimed at the victim, it usually apples to political killings, not military.

    My feeling was that Ron Paul was being political in using the word "assassinate" to describe a military hit, as he is in campaign mode, and that it was a poor choice on his part. His sole point of contention seemed to be that this perp had been a citizen. The armed enemy, on foreign soil, beyond our ability to easily arrest, is a 100% prime grade-A target for killing by any means possible, IMMHO.
    Glad you too made it back safe. Ive never been all that comfortable with the "thanks for your service" comment.

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