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Thread: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    And you are now quoting the DoI, a document written before the Constitution, none of which is therefore derived from the Constitution, in a discussion about Constitutional rights.

    Paulistas have no common sense.
    Our rights, just are.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Fail again. This is getting old. A "right" only takes form when someone tries to deny it from you, and you then seek legal redress.
    that's awesome... and completely wrongheaded.
    you just plainly stated that "dead men tell no tales" is what decides whether or not a right is infringed upon.
    kill the guy, and <poof> the argument of rights is irrelevant... as he cannot seek redress.


    In this case, when Al-Dirtbag was put on the target list last year, it was reviewed in both Federal Court, and in a House hearing. And we still have legal redress, although Al-Dirtbag is dead. Impeachment for one. This is our system.
    the federal district court did not review the issue... they dismissed the fathers case for lack of standing and left the issue undecided.... no evidence was provided by the state, which invoked the state secrets doctrine.

    what House committee hearing?...got a date or anything that we can research

    As I have said numerous times, the Founders would have approved of a bomb falling on this scumbag's head as well.
    some would be overjoyed.. others.. not so much.
    John Adams, for instance, would not be overjoyed

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Certainly. They do not have the right not to be attacked and killed when they are on the enemy's side, fighting us. If we capture them and they are unlawful enemy combatants then they have the right to be detained as a prisoner of war until the war is over, or, if they have committed war crimes to be tried in a military court.
    hmmm.. you distinction of " on their side, fighting us" leaves a lot of room....

    what about Americans, in anytown USA, who advocate for "their side" and propagandize for "them"?...are they valid targets for extrajudicial killing too?

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    hmmm.. you distinction of " on their side, fighting us" leaves a lot of room....

    what about Americans, in anytown USA, who advocate for "their side" and propagandize for "them"?...are they valid targets for extrajudicial killing too?
    If they are on the enemy's side, on a battlefield, in this case in an enemy convoy, then yes. Otherwise no.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    If they are on the enemy's side, on a battlefield, in this case in an enemy convoy, then yes. Otherwise no.
    so you feel there is a geographical distinction as well.

    this is something that civil rights groups, such as the ACLU and CCR agree upon..... in that they have no problem with extrajudicial killings taking place on determined battlegrounds, during combat operations.
    and that, in itself, raises another question... one of whether or not Yemen is a valid battleground.

    both the Bush and Obama administrations contend that the whole world is their battleground... as evident, most recently, by Obama's statement on killing this dude.
    he said "This is further proof that al Qaeda and its affiliates will find no safe haven anywhere in the world".
    so the President kinda disagrees with your geographical distinction.

    so let me lay it out this way..
    the President has the power to extra-judicially kill any person who he deems as an enemy of the state, anywhere in the world ... and this power is unreviewable and the evidence for such determinations is incontestable.
    and you are comfortable with this?

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    so you feel there is a geographical distinction as well.

    this is something that civil rights groups, such as the ACLU and CCR agree upon..... in that they have no problem with extrajudicial killings taking place on determined battlegrounds, during combat operations.
    and that, in itself, raises another question... one of whether or not Yemen is a valid battleground.

    both the Bush and Obama administrations contend that the whole world is their battleground... as evident, most recently, by Obama's statement on killing this dude.
    he said "This is further proof that al Qaeda and its affiliates will find no safe haven anywhere in the world".
    so the President kinda disagrees with your geographical distinction.

    so let me lay it out this way..
    the President has the power to extra-judicially kill any person who he deems as an enemy of the state, anywhere in the world ... and this power is unreviewable and the evidence for such determinations is incontestable.
    and you are comfortable with this?
    As long as you use the incorrect standard to judge this action you will get the wrong result. This is a war. He was an unlawful enemy combatant. He was a propagandist for the enemy in this war. He was in an enemy convoy. He did not hold up a convenience store. This was not a judicial matter in our criminal justice system. He was not in US custody.

    Some people here are stuck on stupid. Don't be one of them.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    As long as you use the incorrect standard to judge this action you will get the wrong result. This is a war. He was an unlawful enemy combatant. He was a propagandist for the enemy in this war. He was in an enemy convoy. He did not hold up a convenience store. This was not a judicial matter in our criminal justice system. He was not in US custody.

    Some people here are stuck on stupid. Don't be one of them.
    you didn't address a single thing I said... not one.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    so let me lay it out this way..
    the President has the power to extra-judicially kill any person who he deems as an enemy of the state, anywhere in the world ... and this power is unreviewable and the evidence for such determinations is incontestable.
    and you are comfortable with this?
    That is not true. The remedy is impeachment. Every single action taken by the President of the United States is subject to Congressional review. Every.Single.One.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    that's awesome... and completely wrongheaded.
    you just plainly stated that "dead men tell no tales" is what decides whether or not a right is infringed upon.
    kill the guy, and <poof> the argument of rights is irrelevant... as he cannot seek redress.
    Your position is insane. No where did I even imply such. For instance, when someone kills you, they are still prosecuted by the state, acting on your behalf. The exceedingly valid legal point is that a "right" is defined only when someone tries to take it from you. That is when you find its boundaries, by challenging the action in Court. If you go to check a right, or the Court to seek its terms, they look to exisitng rulings.

    the federal district court did not review the issue... they dismissed the fathers case for lack of standing and left the issue undecided.... no evidence was provided by the state, which invoked the state secrets doctrine.
    The "lack of standing" was not the plaintiff's. It was acknowledging a "lack of standing" by the judiciary in recognition of the Constitutiuonal power of the Executive, and the law-making power of the Legislative.

    what House committee hearing?...got a date or anything that we can research
    It was included in earlier posts by me and others. I do not know how much you will find on such, but here is a blurb:

    "We take direct actions against terrorists in the intelligence community," then-Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair advised lawmakers last year. "If we think that direct action will involve killing an American, we get specific permission to do that."

    Blair's public testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence in February 2010 amounted to the first confirmation that the Obama administration had procedures in place to lethally target Americans. The officials can cite, in part, a 1942 Supreme Court case in which justices reasoned that the U.S. citizenship of an enemy belligerent "does not relieve him from the consequences" of war.

    Read more: Some question president's power to kill a US citizen overseas - KansasCity.com

    some would be overjoyed.. others.. not so much.
    John Adams, for instance, would not be overjoyed
    I believe John Adams would be most approving. For starters, he had endured the Revolution, where then Tories had fought for the King. They were targeted all the same. I realize that was pre-Constitution. However, Adams showed a distinct break with how some here now view the Constitution with the infamous Alien and Sedition Acts, where American citizens were imprisoned soley for being what we would call being vocally critical of elected officials. A far lower standard than conducting military operations against "Americans" while a member of the military of the enemy, and from a physical position of being on enemy soil.

    Frankly, I believe I just shredded every aspect of your argument.
    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 10-02-11 at 12:52 PM.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    That is not true. The remedy is impeachment. Every single action taken by the President of the United States is subject to Congressional review. Every.Single.One.
    impeachment is not the only remedy... not sure why you are trying to pidgeonhole everyone into either supporting impeachment or the status quo.
    those are options, sure, but they aren't the only options.

    and no, not everything the President does is subject to congressional review.... every now and then Congress wants answers and the Prez says no... that's when the courts get involved.

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