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Thread: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    He got due process. Just not the due process that most folks find themselves receiving.
    Which is the problem. Someone simply deciding that some people get all the protections of the Constitution while others do not.

    Were he not an enemy combatant, in a hostile foreign war zone, but rather within US custody somewhere, then the "due process" is different. But he wasn't, so he was properly targeted, and killed. It was not only "due process", but it was a process very much due to him.
    Simply your opinion. The SCOTUS dismissed the enemy combatant arguement when Bush tried it. They did not argue that this was only valid because someone was in custody. They ruled that citizens do not lose their protections simply because they are deemed as an enemy combatant.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post


    Conservatives are bringing facts, court rulings, and the direct quotes here to this debate. Libs (liberals and misguided libertarians) bring a bunch of made-up stuff.
    I am a liberal, others like me and libertarians are citing sources, so STFU
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Feb 24th, 2010 - Ron Paul has the Sword of Omens.



    l.jpg
    Last edited by jasonxe; 10-01-11 at 03:42 PM.



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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    I'm slightly liberal and I cited my source.
    Yes you did, and your opinion concurs with one I have stated throughout, that being primarily that the decisions by SCOTUS regarding Bush policy went to detainess, that being combatants in custody. Clearly there are a few liberals here who get it, and I have acknowledged such in other posts.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Which is the problem. Someone simply deciding that some people get all the protections of the Constitution while others do not.



    Simply your opinion. The SCOTUS dismissed the enemy combatant arguement when Bush tried it. They did not argue that this was only valid because someone was in custody. They ruled that citizens do not lose their protections simply because they are deemed as an enemy combatant.
    Federal Circuit Court upheld this specific sanction last year. There is no Court decision since that says otherwise. It does not get any more specific.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    I am a liberal, others like me and libertarians are citing sources, so STFU
    Libs getting all butt-hurt today.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    The SCOTUS dismissed the enemy combatant argument when Bush tried it. They did not argue that this was only valid because someone was in custody. They ruled that citizens do not lose their protections simply because they are deemed as an enemy combatant.
    The SCOTUS dismissed GWB's argument because both Padilla and Yaser were in US custody when they were denied their right to due process. The status of an enemy combatant who is a US citizen, is not in US custody and cannot be brought into US custody is an entirely different matter than treatment of US citizens in US custody. The SCOTUS on that matter would not apply to Al Awlaki's situation.

    SCOTUS opinion on Padilla RUMSFELD v. PADILLA | Supreme Court | LII / Legal Information Institute

    SCOTUS opinion on Yaser RUMSFELD v. PADILLA | Supreme Court | LII / Legal Information Institute

    The text of the above opinions makes it crystal clear that the court was only ruling on what constituted lawful detention of US citizen prisoners in custody.
    I don't want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was wedding between the religious fundamentalists and political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it. ~ Billy Graham in Parade magazine February 1, 1981.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Libs getting all butt-hurt today.
    Actually, nah son, because I have a little thing called the facts on my side.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    The SCOTUS dismissed GWB's argument because both Padilla and Yaser were in US custody when they were denied their right to due process. The status of an enemy combatant who is a US citizen, is not in US custody and cannot be brought into US custody is an entirely different matter than treatment of US citizens in US custody. The SCOTUS on that matter would not apply to Al Awlaki's situation.
    Why did they keep their rights? Because labeling them enemy combatants did not remove their rights to due process.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    US passport, page 4, section 8:

    Loss of U.S. Citizenship: Under certain circumstances, you may lose your U.S. citizenship by performing, voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship, any of the following acts: 1) being naturalized in a foreign state; 2) raking an oath or making a declaration to a foreign state; 3) serving in the armed forces of a foreign state.

    I think we can logically argue that joining Al Qaeda and taking part in the planning and implementation of terrorist attacks against the American citizen population, counts as an intention of relinquishing one's U.S. citizenship.
    That is referring to the requirements of those foreign states. Many countries will not allow you to hold dual-citizenship or remain a citizen of a foreign country under the other circumstances mentioned. However, this does bring us to one of the unfortunate precedents potentially to be set as a result of this situation:

    "This is the time to call on Congress and the President to amend the Immigration and Naturalization Act to provide for a renunciation of citizenship by action," he said. "I believe our country and the world are better off with the likes of Awlaki dead and I for one, congratulate the men and women in uniform who helped make this world safer."

    Source: Politico

    I would not be surprised to see some attempt to provide legal cover that will in turn have just enough wiggle room to allow its use in ways it was most certainly not officially proposed to be used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    It's not like a couple of FBI agents could fly to Yemen, find him in the tribal lands, cuff him, and then whisk him back to the US for trial.
    Somehow we have managed to whisk away all sorts of terrorists in hostile territory back to Gitmo. Not to mention cases where we definitely could have whisked the guy back here but decided on an extrajudicial execution anyway *cough* bin-Laden *cough*. I suppose someone living in Israel would have little issue with intelligence agencies and military special forces essentially being made into death squads with no regard for the rule of law but some of us here in the United States are a little leery of that precedent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    It's so not about whether or not al-Awlaki had it coming.
    It think it's pretty much a given that he did have it coming. That's not the issue.
    What's at issue is whether or not it's right for a govt to be allowed to execute citizens w/o due process.
    I consider the old "he had it coming" excuse to be very much at issue. From what I can tell the best evidence for his involvement in any attacks against the United States would seem to be with the underwear bomber who barely even managed to hurt himself with his "bomb" and yet I am supposed to believe this justifies killing him like a dog. Basically the case against him was guilt-by-association and not even very good associations. A lot of alleged terrorists listened to his lectures or this guy went to his mosque for a while. One of the biggest associations made was with the Fort Hood Killer, though again just a matter of innocuous spiritual contact primarily him merely attending sermons, who should not even be labeled a terrorist since he is much more like your typical office/school shooter.

    That his connection is mostly through some lecture a guy listened to over the Internet makes this an even more serious precedent. When our own government happily arms governments that use those arms to kill their own citizens knowing full well that they are doing this without any legitimate justification, speaking a lot and possibly helping some guy set his pants on fire in a plane does not even seem to register by comparison.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
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