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Thread: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I don't think anyone is upset that he was killed by drones.
    I meant people are upset because military force was used by the CIA to kill a US citizen and member of Al Qaeda in a country that could not or would not arrest him and turn him over to the US for trial.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    They both were ruled to have Constitutional rights, no? Padilla was tried and found guilty. Yaser was deported after voluntarily giving up his citizenship. The Bush administration was wrong to have held them without a trial and the courts said so.

    It's wrong to hold a citizen without a trial but not to kill them?
    The law used by GWB's administration to hold that both actions were legal is below. The SCOTUS held that this law did not apply to Padilla and Yaser because the US had the men in custody and could therefore offer them due process as citizens. Al Awlaki was not in custody and could not be brought into custody so it would seem this law authorizes the POTUS to use military force against him.
    Authorization for Use of Military Force
    September 18, 2001

    Public Law 107-40 [S. J. RES. 23]

    107th CONGRESS

    JOINT RESOLUTION

    To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States.

    Whereas, on September 11, 2001, acts of treacherous violence were committed against the United States and its citizens; and

    Whereas, such acts render it both necessary and appropriate that the United States exercise its rights to self-defense and to protect United States citizens both at home and abroad; and

    Whereas, in light of the threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States posed by these grave acts of violence; and

    Whereas, such acts continue to pose an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States; and

    Whereas, the President has authority under the Constitution to take action to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States: Now, therefore, be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

    SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

    This joint resolution may be cited as the `Authorization for Use of Military Force'.

    SEC. 2. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

    (a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.
    Entire text available at: Authorization for Use of Military Force- Sept. 18, 2001
    Last edited by Frolicking Dinosaurs; 10-01-11 at 11:43 AM.
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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    and they are both worth less than al-Awlaki's. when you divorce the US and you enter a state of war with her, you are killable. ask any Confederate soldier if anyone tried to arrest them before the artillery shells began raining down.

    again, the man was a soveriegn citizen, and he made his choice.
    As I note, if he had been killed in a general attack I wouldn't have the problem with this that I do. Being specifically targeted is where the problem arises especially when we had a valid route to take to deal with this. He could have been tried a year ago. (or longer)

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    I am no fan of Obama under any circumstances, or by any stretch, because I think he's been useless and the king of all liars, but I will admit that since he has decided that killing the terrorists as I have been saying all along I support killing OBL and now Anwar al-Awlaki and those with him.

    In these cases Obama is doing the right thing.
    I also have to say that I now have eliminated the first GOP candidate from any consideration and that is Ron Paul.
    I think he could not be more wrong. You don't give a poisonous snake a break you kill it.

    Al-Qaida understands death and nothing else because they are all crazy as hell.
    We are at war. Last time I checked, we don't need Congressional or judicial approval to take out the military leaders of countries (or, in this case, organizations) that we are at war with. If Obama was killing random political leaders we don't like but who have no obvious connection to the war on terror, that would be a different matter.
    Last edited by Cameron; 10-01-11 at 11:47 AM.
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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    As I note, if he had been killed in a general attack I wouldn't have the problem with this that I do. Being specifically targeted is where the problem arises.
    not really. as I've pointed out, he declared war on us and gave up his citizenship. as Dinosaurs' has pointed out, he then joined and became a leader in an organization that congress has duly authorized the President to hunt down and kill when and where ever he pleases.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    How many folks has BO killed, assassinated, maimed or injured since he won the Noble Peace Prize? 1,000, 10,000, 50,000....more?

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    We are at war. Last time I checked, we don't need Congressional or judicial approval to take out the military leaders of countries (or, in this case, organizations) that we are at war with.
    bingo. this isn't a police issue. the only reason not to kill one of these guys is to drag him somewhere and stick his head under water until he tells us where to find the other guys that we also want to kill... before taking first said individual out back and shooting him.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    The USSC has ruled otherwise.
    Link?

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Again. That is bullcrap. First, it is an Executive Order, from 1981. Second, it deals with "political assassinations". Not military targets.
    Executive Order's still have the force of law (Executive Order definition) and they don't expire when the President leaves (Executive Orders Disposition Tables)
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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    I meant people are upset because military force was used by the CIA to kill a US citizen and member of Al Qaeda in a country that could not or would not arrest him and turn him over to the US for trial.
    As I said, I understand that. This is one rare case where I could understand the death penalty being meted out after being found guilty.

    The law used by GWB's administration to hold that both actions were legal is below. The SCOTUS held that this law did not apply to Padilla and Yaser because the US had the men in custody and could therefore offer them due process as citizens. Al Awlaki was not in custody and could not be brought into custody so it would seem this law authorizes the POTUS to use military force against him.
    Law's authorize many things that were not Constitutional. McCain/Feingold comes readily to mind. The court ruling was based upon the men having Constitutional rights, not that they simply were being held.

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    Re: Ron Paul: US-born al-Qaida cleric 'assassinated'

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    not really. as I've pointed out, he declared war on us and gave up his citizenship.
    You can point it out 50 more times and it still becomes nothing more than your opinion.

    as Dinosaurs' has pointed out, he then joined and became a leader in an organization that congress has duly authorized the President to hunt down and kill when and where ever he pleases.
    Constitutional rights should not be discarded for political points.

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