• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

Glad he can't hurt anyone any more.
 
apdst said:
The only honor in war, is winning and coming home, intact, both mentally and physically.
Click to expand...

If someone is going to don a suit of their country and be a defender there are certian things they give up. My personal feelings are that a armded "defender" should never, ever put a civs life in danger. Not even into possible harm. If you can't sacrifice yourself for the sake of 100% target aquisition with no innocent splash damage you shouldn't wear the defenders suit. It becomes ironic and twisted when you argue that for the sake of defense, but more so the defenders, innocents must be put at risk.
 
It is disgusting that due process was ignored for this man and that the president has the power to order an assassination of a U.S. citizen. Our founding fathers would be very saddened to hear this news.
 
Voltaire X said:
It is disgusting that due process was ignored for this man and that the president has the power to order an assassination of a U.S. citizen. Our founding fathers would be very saddened to hear this news.
Click to expand...

only enemy combatants arrested on American soil are entitled to due process.

as a Liberal, a Democrat, and a Progressive, I cry not for this scumbag. He is now worm food, Insha' Allah.
 
Thunder said:
your comment about "a towel on your head", was racist.
Click to expand...

Because you say so ? What "race" did I insult ? "Jihadist" race ? "Muslim" race ? Are you the race police ? Or you just can't handle that a few of us do not feel a need to be politically correct about Americans putting towels on their heads and joining the enemy ?

I'm calling you out here. Tell me what race was insulted, and how.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Because you say so ? What "race" did I insult ? "Jihadist" race ? "Muslim" race ? Are you the race police ? Or you just can't handle that a few of us do not feel a need to be politically correct about Americans putting towels on their heads and joining the enemy ?

I'm calling you out here. Tell me what race was insulted, and how.
Click to expand...

your anti-Muslim comment qualifies as racism. Or we can call it Islamophobia if you prefer.
 
Voltaire X said:
It is disgusting that due process was ignored for this man and that the president has the power to order an assassination of a U.S. citizen. Our founding fathers would be very saddened to hear this news.
Click to expand...

You lose certain rights when you encourage or help carry out the killing of your fellow citizens.
 
He was a traitorous piece of ****, who declared war on his own country. Enemy or traitor, the lawful punishment is death. I'm glad he was taken out before he could carry out even more attacks on Europe and the USA. Good riddance.
 
jamesrage said:
The day he became a terrorist and turned against America and moved out of the states he stopped being a citizen. If he didn't want to be treated like any other terrorist then he should have went back to the US and surrendered.
Click to expand...
That's not legally correct.


Your Star said:
Glad he can't hurt anyone any more.
Click to expand...

True


Voltaire X said:
It is disgusting that due process was ignored for this man and that the president has the power to order an assassination of a U.S. citizen. Our founding fathers would be very saddened to hear this news.
Click to expand...

Also true.

StillBallin75 said:
You lose certain rights when you encourage or help carry out the killing of your fellow citizens.
Click to expand...

Actually you don't lose your citizenship.

DiAnna said:
He was a traitorous piece of ****, who declared war on his own country. Enemy or traitor, the lawful punishment is death. I'm glad he was taken out before he could carry out even more attacks on Europe and the USA. Good riddance.
Click to expand...

Agreed.


I'm currently on the fence on this one. I'm glad he's dead and can't plan or spread more hate masquerading as Islam. My problem with this is no matter what the guy did, he's still a citizen of the U.S. If the government can kill a citizen, no strike that, bomb anonymously, a citizen of the United States in another country under the auspices of "terrorism", and in which those auspices are considered "top secret" and not for public view - I have a problem with that. That means, it is legal now for you or me, to be bombed into oblivion from our own government without due process of law, and those who bomb you or I do not have to produce evidence. They can simply state, "So and so was a terrorist, has been linked to terrorism and we saw the opportunity and took it". The evidence is secret and held under "national security" therefore no one need to be the wiser.

In this case, it would have been better to send in undercover spec-ops and attempt tor capture him and give him due process If that wasn't possible, take him out with overwhelming firepower - but make the attempt. We did it with Bin Laden that way and he was no U.S. citizen. I see this as a slippery slope ... either we learn from this and decide this is NOT acceptable in the future, or we start killing our own people because of terrorism today - but what else tomorrow? I don't like it and I'm still glad he's dead.
 
Thunder said:
only enemy combatants arrested on American soil are entitled to due process ..............
Click to expand...

That is not quite accurate. Enemy combatants, in US custody, do have some rights. For instance, the SCOTUS has ruled that such as the Gitmo detainees do have a right to habeus corpus.

Originally Posted by Voltaire X

It is disgusting that due process was ignored for this man and that the president has the power to order an assassination of a U.S. citizen. Our founding fathers would be very saddened to hear this news.
Click to expand...

I see nothing in the beliefs of the Founders that would support your assertion. As the Founders decided is was OK to declare the King's land no longer his, and therefore the King's soldiers on it now as fair targets, I can't see where they would lose a wink over blowing these scumbags up in Yemen. My library overflows with books about the Founders, btw, and I've read every one at least twice.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
I see nothing in the beliefs of the Founders that would support your assertion. As the Founders decided is was OK to declare the King's land no longer his, and therefore the King's soldiers on it now as fair targets, I can't see where they would lose a wink over blowing these scumbags up in Yemen. My library overflows with books about the Founders, btw, and I've read every one at least twice.
Click to expand...

You're comparing a revolution of a country against a monarch with the planned and executed assassination of a U.S. citizen in Yemen. Granted, that citizen is part of a terrorist organization and was a bad guy. But the two things are not comparable.
 
Ockham said:
You're comparing a revolution of a country against a monarch with the planned and executed assassination of a U.S. citizen in Yemen. Granted, that citizen is part of a terrorist organization and was a bad guy. But the two things are not comparable.
Click to expand...

Which was a good part of my point. Someone claimed that our Founders would have been upset with this. I am certain not. It is folly to assume such about our Founders. As I noted, our Founders knew full well the risk of war and death. Such men have a different appreciation than the modern day ACLU wimp. I do not believe the Founders would have fretted for one minute over Al-Dirtbag. As for how the Founders actually implemented the Constitution, one need only look to Washington and the Whiskey Rebellion, and Jefferson and his enforcement of the Embargo, or Adams and Alien and Sedition, to see that they were not as anal as we are !! By a long shot !

This "citizen" was an enemy combatant first. In this new all-terrorism all-the-time global war ..... well, its not your Granpa's, or your Founders, kind of war anymore.
 
Last edited:
Thunder said:
Another Obama victory in the war on terror.
Click to expand...
Yes. Let's hope he has many, many more. I hope he kills the last Al Qaeda monster on the last day of his presidency next (slightly more than) year.
 
apdst said:
If there is retaliation, the attackers position themselves in the open to be destroyed. That would basically make the killing of these two clowns a, "recon by fire".
Click to expand...
I love the way you think.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
If someone is going to don a suit of their country and be a defender there are certian things they give up. My personal feelings are that a armded "defender" should never, ever put a civs life in danger. Not even into possible harm. If you can't sacrifice yourself for the sake of 100% target aquisition with no innocent splash damage you shouldn't wear the defenders suit. It becomes ironic and twisted when you argue that for the sake of defense, but more so the defenders, innocents must be put at risk.
Click to expand...

There couldn't be a more disfunctional way to run a military than that, because it's 100% impossible to give a 100% guarantee that non-combatants won't be endangered.

If such a guarantee were the deciding factor of launching a military operation, the United States wouldn't exist anymore.
 
nijato said:
I, speaking only for myself, can't feel good about the extra-judicial killing of an American citizen. Clearly, if he was in fact a terrorist leader (which seems very likeky) planning attacks against the US, he's an enemy of the state. We should all hesitate to quickly endorse the targeted assassination of citizens however, and I only hope that this was done because no options for his capture and trial were possible.
Click to expand...
I suspect he had plenty of attention from the lawyers before he finished his last meal. He was an unlawful combatant, part of the command and control structure on the other side of the war we are in. Sometimes bad things just happen to bad people in war. He was a legitimate target, serviced properly.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Which was a good part of my point. Someone claimed that our Founders would have been upset with this. I am certain not. It is folly to assume such about our Founders. As I noted, our Founders knew full well the risk of war and death. Such men have a different appreciation than the modern day ACLU wimp.
Click to expand...
So to claim our founders would NOT have been upset with this is equally as much folly. What I am sure of was the educated me they were, they would know better than to compare a country's rights with that of one citizen.

Eighty Deuce said:
I do not believe the Founders would have fretted for one minute over Al-Dirtbag. As for how the Founders actually implemented the Constitution, one need only look to Washington and the Whiskey Rebellion, and Jefferson and his enforcement of the Embargo, or Adams and Alien and Sedition, to see that they were not as anal as we are !! By a long shot !
Click to expand...
Perhaps not - however we jealously hold to the Constitution and should - one need only look at today's ursurpation of that Constitution and our governments daily dismissal of it know they would not be so keen as to simply shrug it aside whenever they please. Instead of looking at a rebellion put down (again, a bad example on your part), you should be looking at debate on individual citizens rights. Our police, FBI etc., would have no problem putting down a rebellion either. However, the assassination of one of it's own citizens in a foreign country is a different animal.


Eighty Deuce said:
This "citizen" was an enemy combatant first. In this new all-terrorism all-the-time global war ..... well, its not your Granpa's, or your Founders, kind of war anymore.
Click to expand...
The question is, was there a comparable killing of an American citizen by the government of the United States in a foreign country for say treason or something similar at in the 18th or 19th century? And if so, what were the circumstances and how can that be applied to this current event.
 
We are in a war with Al Qaeda, an organization that attacked the US on its own soil on 9/11/01 and killed thousands. In a situation where the evidence is there that an Al Qeada terrorist was involved in deaths and is planning more and is in a country where we cannot have him arrested and sent to us, then extra-judicial killing is warranted. No one thought twice when OBL was killed. Being a US citizen should not make a difference if the proof is there.
 
Ockham said:
So to claim our founders would NOT have been upset with this is equally as much folly. What I am sure of was the educated me they were, they would know better than to compare a country's rights with that of one citizen.

Perhaps not - however we jealously hold to the Constitution and should - one need only look at today's ursurpation of that Constitution and our governments daily dismissal of it know they would not be so keen as to simply shrug it aside whenever they please. Instead of looking at a rebellion put down (again, a bad example on your part), you should be looking at debate on individual citizens rights. Our police, FBI etc., would have no problem putting down a rebellion either. However, the assassination of one of it's own citizens in a foreign country is a different animal.


The question is, was there a comparable killing of an American citizen by the government of the United States in a foreign country for say treason or something similar at in the 18th or 19th century? And if so, what were the circumstances and how can that be applied to this current event.
Click to expand...

A comparable event of American citizens having their constitutional rights ripped off would the the the conspirators in the Lincoln Assination.

Another would be dig into how many American citizens served in the German army during WW1 and WW2.
 
Last edited:
Ockham said:
So to claim our founders would NOT have been upset with this is equally as much folly. What I am sure of was the educated me they were, they would know better than to compare a country's rights with that of one citizen.
Click to expand...

Well, we need only look at their actions, and see that they saw things quite a bit differently than we do today. I feel very confident that the Founders did not mean for the Constitution to trump common sense. I believe they thought it far more compatible with common sense than what it has morphed into today. I am certain of it.

Perhaps not - however we jealously hold to the Constitution and should - one need only look at today's ursurpation of that Constitution and our governments daily dismissal of it know they would not be so keen as to simply shrug it aside whenever they please. Instead of looking at a rebellion put down (again, a bad example on your part), you should be looking at debate on individual citizens rights. Our police, FBI etc., would have no problem putting down a rebellion either. However, the assassination of one of it's own citizens in a foreign country is a different animal.
Click to expand...

"Jealously hold" ? WTF does that mean, sarcastically asked ? The Founders concept of what was to be "held" is not as things are now. They were completely against the nanny state, redistribution, and commerce regulation such as today. I submit with extreme prejudice that they most certainly did not hold "jealously" what we have bastardized today.

The question is, was there a comparable killing of an American citizen by the government of the United States in a foreign country for say treason or something similar at in the 18th or 19th century? And if so, what were the circumstances and how can that be applied to this current event.
Click to expand...

Bull****. As I noted earlier, we have countless examples of how the Founders took things literally different regarding the Constitution than we do today. One not need find an exact scenario match to see that they, and the document, were not as today. Do you consider yourself learned about the Founders ? It is not even a close argument. The Founders would have lined up to put a bullet a Al-Dirtbags head, then asked any who objected to realize that the Constitution was never to suspend common sense, but rather to enforce it.
 
apdst said:
A comparable event of American citizens having their constitutional rights ripped off would the the the conspirators in the Lincoln Assination.

Another would be dig into how many American citizens served in the German army during WW1 and WW2.
Click to expand...

Well said. Look at Lincoln and the suspension of habeus corpus. He was not a Founder, but he was closer than us, and he is a darling of historians, is he not ?

Or, as you note with WWII, look to FDR and the 8 German saboteurs. Some of them were "Americans". He hung 6 of them, if I remember correctly. They threw the Constitution out the window on them. I got the book 6 feet to my right.
 
This guy renounced his American citizenship when he joined an enemy terrorist organization and swore Jihad against the USA, while in a foreign land.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom