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Thread: Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

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    Re: Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    So to claim our founders would NOT have been upset with this is equally as much folly. What I am sure of was the educated me they were, they would know better than to compare a country's rights with that of one citizen.

    Perhaps not - however we jealously hold to the Constitution and should - one need only look at today's ursurpation of that Constitution and our governments daily dismissal of it know they would not be so keen as to simply shrug it aside whenever they please. Instead of looking at a rebellion put down (again, a bad example on your part), you should be looking at debate on individual citizens rights. Our police, FBI etc., would have no problem putting down a rebellion either. However, the assassination of one of it's own citizens in a foreign country is a different animal.


    The question is, was there a comparable killing of an American citizen by the government of the United States in a foreign country for say treason or something similar at in the 18th or 19th century? And if so, what were the circumstances and how can that be applied to this current event.
    A comparable event of American citizens having their constitutional rights ripped off would the the the conspirators in the Lincoln Assination.

    Another would be dig into how many American citizens served in the German army during WW1 and WW2.
    Last edited by apdst; 09-30-11 at 09:47 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    So to claim our founders would NOT have been upset with this is equally as much folly. What I am sure of was the educated me they were, they would know better than to compare a country's rights with that of one citizen.
    Well, we need only look at their actions, and see that they saw things quite a bit differently than we do today. I feel very confident that the Founders did not mean for the Constitution to trump common sense. I believe they thought it far more compatible with common sense than what it has morphed into today. I am certain of it.

    Perhaps not - however we jealously hold to the Constitution and should - one need only look at today's ursurpation of that Constitution and our governments daily dismissal of it know they would not be so keen as to simply shrug it aside whenever they please. Instead of looking at a rebellion put down (again, a bad example on your part), you should be looking at debate on individual citizens rights. Our police, FBI etc., would have no problem putting down a rebellion either. However, the assassination of one of it's own citizens in a foreign country is a different animal.
    "Jealously hold" ? WTF does that mean, sarcastically asked ? The Founders concept of what was to be "held" is not as things are now. They were completely against the nanny state, redistribution, and commerce regulation such as today. I submit with extreme prejudice that they most certainly did not hold "jealously" what we have bastardized today.

    The question is, was there a comparable killing of an American citizen by the government of the United States in a foreign country for say treason or something similar at in the 18th or 19th century? And if so, what were the circumstances and how can that be applied to this current event.
    Bull****. As I noted earlier, we have countless examples of how the Founders took things literally different regarding the Constitution than we do today. One not need find an exact scenario match to see that they, and the document, were not as today. Do you consider yourself learned about the Founders ? It is not even a close argument. The Founders would have lined up to put a bullet a Al-Dirtbags head, then asked any who objected to realize that the Constitution was never to suspend common sense, but rather to enforce it.

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    Re: Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    A comparable event of American citizens having their constitutional rights ripped off would the the the conspirators in the Lincoln Assination.

    Another would be dig into how many American citizens served in the German army during WW1 and WW2.
    Well said. Look at Lincoln and the suspension of habeus corpus. He was not a Founder, but he was closer than us, and he is a darling of historians, is he not ?

    Or, as you note with WWII, look to FDR and the 8 German saboteurs. Some of them were "Americans". He hung 6 of them, if I remember correctly. They threw the Constitution out the window on them. I got the book 6 feet to my right.

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    Re: Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

    This guy renounced his American citizenship when he joined an enemy terrorist organization and swore Jihad against the USA, while in a foreign land.

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    Re: Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    From CNN:

    Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed - CNN.com

    This is a welcome development in the continuing fight against Al Qaeda. Mr. Awlaki was a legitimate military objective under the Laws of War. He was not a civilian. As when any other combatant is targeted, any airstrike that targeted Mr. Awlaki was lawful.
    :wave: bye-bye, a--hole here's hoping you meet 72 pissed off Virginians.

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    Re: Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

    I see what happened to Al Awlaki as more similar to what happens when a person takes hostages, kills one or more and is threatening to kill more. No one think the constitution has been violated when a sharp-shooter from the SWAT team shoots and kills the perp because it is the only way to save the lives of the remaining hostages.
    I don't want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was wedding between the religious fundamentalists and political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it. ~ Billy Graham in Parade magazine February 1, 1981.

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    Re: Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Well said. Look at Lincoln and the suspension of habeus corpus. He was not a Founder, but he was closer than us, and he is a darling of historians, is he not ?

    Or, as you note with WWII, look to FDR and the 8 German saboteurs. Some of them were "Americans". He hung 6 of them, if I remember correctly. They threw the Constitution out the window on them. I got the book 6 feet to my right.
    I had forgotten all about that. Good job!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I had forgotten all about that. Good job!
    My pleasure CIB.

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    Re: Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    My pleasure CIB.
    Hooah!!

    Two more good examples would be "Tokyo Rose" and "Axis Sally". American citizens that were imprisoned for spreading anti-American propaganda during WW2. Afterall, they were simply excercising their 1st Amendment rights. They would be Left wing heroes, now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

    He is a dead terrorist. Those who cheered bin Laden's death while gnashing their teeth at Alwaki's simply because he was an American are not only hypocritical, they're ****ing crazy. The guy is responsible for hundreds of deaths, and would have been responsible for hundreds more if some of his bombs hadn't been stopped while being shipped. Now he is dead. Personally, I'm going to drink to that. Those who won't join me can put on their hair shirts and pound their chests in mourning. Frankly, Scarlett, I don't give a damn. Cheers!

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