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Thread: Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You don't have a case. You were clearly behaved dishonestly and there is absolutely no doubt about it.
    If the argument is about taking a quote out of context, I have problems:

    1. I was unaware of any conventions about reposting comments in entierty. It seems pretty common practice to copy only relevant sections. Clearly it would be dishonest to change someone's words.

    2. It is my contention that the "wrap a towel around your head" and "al-dirtbag" comments are unacceptable regaurdless of context. Thus, I was in no way being dishonest, since no context (other than direct opposition or third-part quotation) makes those comments acceptable. Besides, 82s full comments are now on this thread in two places.
    "A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

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    Re: Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

    Quote Originally Posted by nijato View Post
    If the argument is about taking a quote out of context, I have problems:

    1. I was unaware of any conventions about reposting comments in entierty. It seems pretty common practice to copy only relevant sections. Clearly it would be dishonest to change someone's words.
    You and I are not friends. We are antagonists on the opposite side of every issue. Except this one. I agree with you. You did no wrong in cutting and pasting only the part of his post you were commenting on.

    For all of the others, relax.

  3. #153
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    Re: Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Originally Posted by nijato

    If the argument is about taking a quote out of context, I have problems:
    1. I was unaware of any conventions about reposting comments in entierty. It seems pretty common practice to copy only relevant sections. Clearly it would be dishonest to change someone's words

    You and I are not friends. We are antagonists on the opposite side of every issue. Except this one. I agree with you. You did no wrong in cutting and pasting only the part of his post you were commenting on.

    For all of the others, relax.
    Incorrect both. Nijato, by chopping the quote, you changed its context. Reread it both of you. Without someone pointing out that you had chopped it, no one is going to know the context unless they go back and dig it up. It is known as a falsehood by omission, as labeled. Its like being a liar.

    Secondly, neither of you are the determinants of what is "acceptable" here. The Mods are the arbiters, based on the rules.

    Most importantly, you did not label it as "unacceptable". You distorted it by chopping it, then called it a bunch of silly whining lib nonsense. The Mod warning was strongly aimed at you Nijato.

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    Re: Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

    Quote Originally Posted by nijato View Post

    1. I was unaware of any conventions about reposting comments in entierty. It seems pretty common practice to copy only relevant sections. Clearly it would be dishonest to change someone's words.
    You needn't be aware of any "conventions". It s simply honorable to try and get the context and intent of what the person on the other side is saying. Some feel that changing the words in another persons post is acceptable as well. These people tend to belong to the same political persuasion.
    2. It is my contention that the "wrap a towel around your head" and "al-dirtbag" comments are unacceptable regaurdless of context.
    Who cares what you think? You don't distort the intent of what the other person is saying according to what you think.
    Thus, I was in no way being dishonest, since no context (other than direct opposition or third-part quotation) makes those comments acceptable
    .

    Of course you were being dishonest and that fact is being broadly recognized.
    Besides, 82s full comments are now on this thread in two places.
    Not relevant.

  5. #155
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    Re: Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Incorrect both. Nijato, by chopping the quote, you changed its context. Reread it both of you. Without someone pointing out that you had chopped it, no one is going to know the context unless they go back and dig it up. It is known as a falsehood by omission, as labeled. Its like being a liar.

    Secondly, neither of you are the determinants of what is "acceptable" here. The Mods are the arbiters, based on the rules.

    Most importantly, you did not label it as "unacceptable". You distorted it by chopping it, then called it a bunch of silly whining lib nonsense. The Mod warning was strongly aimed at you Nijato.
    Funny. I don't like Nijato. He nearly always grates on me. On the other hand I do like you. I agree with you far more often than I disagree.
    in this case I disagree. I do t believe he changed the context. I do not believe he was lying. I do not believe it is inappropriate.

    I can certainly think for myself about what is or is not appropriate, whether I have any power to enforce my beliefs or not.

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    Re: Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Funny. I don't like Nijato. He nearly always grates on me. On the other hand I do like you. I agree with you far more often than I disagree.
    in this case I disagree. I do t believe he changed the context. I do not believe he was lying. I do not believe it is inappropriate.

    I can certainly think for myself about what is or is not appropriate, whether I have any power to enforce my beliefs or not.
    It is pretty easy to see that the context is changed from taking just the snippet, vs the entire quote. I worded my post as a sequence of events not to follow. I clearly stated it as a sequence. What Nijato did was not only snip it, but more importatntly, in presenting, and then criticizing, as they did, made the decision that other readers didn't need to see the sequence so as to make their own decision.

    I would suggest you do a little searching about basic consepts of dishonesty as well. Everyone seems to be familiar with the direct telling of a lie, that being "falsehood by commission". Too many ignore the flip side of the same coin, that being "falsehood by omission", which is to exclude so as to deliberately distort and mislead.

    And then, since you embrace what is a clearly mistaken and warped view by that poster on this, you are also challenging my referral to Al-Alwaqi as "Al-Dirtbag", which was claimed as "unacceptable" and other rubbish by the leftwad. Apparently I am disrespecting someone who we both agree deserves to be dead. Someone who tried to kill American citizens. A real scumbag. But God forbid, or apparently "Allah forbid" with a few of the left-pukes, that I trash his name ?

    You really want to hitch your horse there ?
    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 10-02-11 at 10:47 AM.

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    Re: Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    It is pretty easy to see that the context is changed from taking just the snippet, vs the entire quote. I worded my post as a sequence of events not to follow. I clearly stated it as a sequence. What Nijato did was not only snip it, but more importatntly, in presenting, and then criticizing, as they did, made the decision that other readers didn't need to see the sequence so as to make their own decision.
    I understood your argument about how he selected that part of your statement he intended to comment on. I have no problem with anyone who does so. He did not change your words did he?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    I would suggest you do a little searching about basic concepts of dishonesty as well. Everyone seems to be familiar with the direct telling of a lie, that being "falsehood by commission". Too many ignore the flip side of the same coin, that being "falsehood by omission", which is to exclude so as to deliberately distort and mislead.
    Sure. This did not happen. He did not distort what you wrote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    And then, since you embrace what is a clearly mistaken and warped view by that poster on this, you are also challenging my referral to Al-Alwaqi as "Al-Dirtbag", which was claimed as "unacceptable" and other rubbish by the leftwad. Apparently I am disrespecting someone who we both agree deserves to be dead. Someone who tried to kill American citizens. A real scumbag. But God forbid, or apparently "Allah forbid" with a few of the left-pukes, that I trash his name ?

    You really want to hitch your horse there ?
    I did not agree with his position. I did agree with his quoting mechanics. I wish all people responding would pare down the original to just what is being responded to.

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    Re: Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I understood your argument about how he selected that part of your statement he intended to comment on. I have no problem with anyone who does so. He did not change your words did he?

    Sure. This did not happen. He did not distort what you wrote.

    I did not agree with his position. I did agree with his quoting mechanics. I wish all people responding would pare down the original to just what is being responded to.
    Perhaps if you make a post, where you are conveying a thought using several sentences, and someone then comes along and takes only a snippet, several pages later, then violates forum rules while also characterizing you as being "hateful ... blah .. blah .. blah", we wil see if you do not feel it was appropriate for the entire thought to have been pasted as written, at least to allow for others to evaluate what you wrote, and not the editing of another so as to exclude the body of thought you conveyed.

    And if I see it, I will say "I told you so".
    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 10-02-11 at 11:07 AM.

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    Re: Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Perhaps if you make a post, where you are conveying a thought using several sentences, and someone then comes along and takes only a snippet, several pages later, then violates forum rules while also characterizing you as being "hateful ... blah .. blah .. blah", we wil see if you do not feel it was appropriate for the entire thought to have been pasted as written, at least to allow for others to evaluate what you wrote, and not the editing of another so as to exclude the body of thought you conveyed.

    And if I see it, I will say "I told you so".
    LOL. I would shrug it off.

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    Re: Yemen says U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Unless, you're operating as an international terrorist, whose hell bent on destroying the country. In that case, you get a side-winder in your ass, while you're eating supper.
    Nah, man. We're supposed to get a warrant before we go up to every hadj brandishing an RPG, and a box of explosives, read them their rights, then peacefully take them to the US to stand trial, and serve their time in a correctional facilityafter being sentenced by a jury of his peers. That's totally how war works, just ask the guys that went through Sadr City.

    Military targets don't get Due Process, they don't get trials, they don't get bail, or even a last meal. They get eliminated to fulfill the mission objectives. Al-Awlaki became an objective the moment he began recruiting for AQ, and being a part of attacks on US civilians. He was a component of the enemy's ranks. He wasn't killed as an American, but as an agent of Al-Qaeda.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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