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Thread: White House asks Supreme Court to rule on healthcare law

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    Re: White House asks Supreme Court to rule on healthcare law

    I have no idea what your position is but we have many here and I see where those protesting on Wall Street have said that if they go to college everyone should have to cover it.
    My view is college should be based on ability not ability to pay. I personally think we're handicapping our future economy as prices rise and a lot of people either are outpriced by the new costs or have to go into lifelong debt to pay. I don't think we should just send every Tom,Dick, and Harry to school. I do think we're getting to a situation where potentially based on rising prices all over the country that the majority of Americans will not be able to afford an education. This of course is happening as our competitors send more and more people to college. Why is a rich, smart country like the US doing everything opposite of what countries like China, India, S. Korea, Europe are doing? It's like we're purposely trying to errode our competitiveness.

    Nobody is still argueing that Obamacare is going to lower costs. Any curtailment of costs will have to include tort reform which the Republicans tried to get included in Obamacare but were rebuffed.
    I is still argued...Book Excerpt: How The Individual Health Insurance Mandate Will Work - Kaiser Health News
    There are problems of course, one being that the penalty may just be cheap enough to pay instead of purchasing insurance. The penalty should always be higher than the cost of the lowest insurance plan for a less than 30 year old. They should also have a 5 year waiver stating they waive the protections in the plan for "pre-existing conditions".

    It's kind of needed...we are facing a situation where healthcare costs are rising at huge rates, causing premiums to go up, and people that are healthy are making the economical decision to not get healthcare since the rates are rising therefore causing rates to rise even more since the risk pool is smaller and is more high risk.

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    Re: White House asks Supreme Court to rule on healthcare law

    You either support the right to make decisions regarding your personal life, or you don't.
    Unless....it effects other individuals, which not having insurance and depending on others to foot the bill does. Do I think you have a "choice" to keep an acid pool in your back yard with no fence that kids can go jump into? No. Doesnt' mean I don't believe in personal choice. There's also the fact we don't all live on islands and our choices can effect others.

    Of course you do - more power for the government means less power for the people - all in the name of expanding the Dem voter base.
    You do know that it's much cheaper right? The largest cost for employers is to provide health insurance.....if you want to lower the cost of employing Americans then that's the biggest bang for your buck. We spend the highest proportion of our GDP on healthcare in the world...and it's growing. You're attributing an idea to me based purely on some Glenn Beck/Limbaugh style strawman of a Liberal. You do know people can come to reasoned opinion that are different than your own?

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    Re: White House asks Supreme Court to rule on healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    It's kind of needed...we are facing a situation where healthcare costs are rising at huge rates, causing premiums to go up, and people that are healthy are making the economical decision to not get healthcare since the rates are rising therefore causing rates to rise even more since the risk pool is smaller and is more high risk.
    Rising costs are a result of the insulation of those who receive the goods and services from the cost of those goods and services.

    Eliminate insurance. This forces people to consider what health care they -really- need and then shop around for it; this forces health care providers to compete with one another both in terms of the cost of their service and quality of same.

    -This- will reduce costs and increase quality.

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    Re: White House asks Supreme Court to rule on healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Unless....it effects other individuals,
    The choice to pay for one's health care costs out of pocket - the choice you want to deny to everyone - affects no one else.


    You do know that it's much cheaper right?
    This does nothing to negate what I said - you can rationalize your support for bigger government and less power in the hands of the people however you want - you're still arguing for bigger government and less power for the people.

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    Re: White House asks Supreme Court to rule on healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    The choice to pay for one's health care costs out of pocket - the choice you want to deny to everyone - affects no one else.
    It affects all of us when someone requires emergency care that they can't afford. In that case, the taxpayers have to pay.


    This does nothing to negate what I said - you can rationalize your support for bigger government and less power in the hands of the people however you want - you're still arguing for bigger government and less power for the people.
    This is nothing more than a slogan that even the rightwing does not believe in. They just whine about big govt when they don't like a policy. When they like the policy (banning abortion, prohibiting SSM, PATRIOT Act, etc) they are all for Big Govt telling people what they can and can't do
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: White House asks Supreme Court to rule on healthcare law

    If I force everyone on my block to buy a case of wine each, I can get a good bulk discount on that wine, and then we can all have wine at a much cheaper rate. If you don't want the wine, that's fine, I'll take your share, but you still have to pay, otherwise the rest of us don't get the wine as cheaply.

    That is this healthcare bill in a nutshell.

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    Re: White House asks Supreme Court to rule on healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    If I force everyone on my block to buy a case of wine each, I can get a good bulk discount on that wine, and then we can all have wine at a much cheaper rate. If you don't want the wine, that's fine, I'll take your share, but you still have to pay, otherwise the rest of us don't get the wine as cheaply.

    That is this healthcare bill in a nutshell.
    People don't need wine to live (unless they're from France)
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: White House asks Supreme Court to rule on healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    If I force everyone on my block to buy a case of wine each, I can get a good bulk discount on that wine, and then we can all have wine at a much cheaper rate. If you don't want the wine, that's fine, I'll take your share, but you still have to pay, otherwise the rest of us don't get the wine as cheaply.
    That is this healthcare bill in a nutshell.
    Dont forget that if you choose to not buy the case of wine, the money will be taken from you anyway.

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    Re: White House asks Supreme Court to rule on healthcare law

    Rising costs are a result of the insulation of those who receive the goods and services from the cost of those goods and services.

    Eliminate insurance. This forces people to consider what health care they -really- need and then shop around for it; this forces health care providers to compete with one another both in terms of the cost of their service and quality of same.

    -This- will reduce costs and increase quality
    I have this debate with my brother, he doesn't have your viewpoint, I think it's wrong that most American can afford out of pocket stuff they really NEED but his view is more of a catastrophic insurance plan for cancer or other 30k plus costs as well as a tax sheltered savings plan for visits which would have the same effect...you pay out of pocket for health care unless you get one of those massive ordeals that cost the same amount of say a house.

    I disagree on one major issue, is our goal to provide health insurance to a majority of Americans or not?
    Another would be....is healthcare really a good similar to say buying an IPOD? I mean, first of all, if a doctor tells you you need an MRI Americans can not make an informed decision if they need one or not. It's like seeing a mechanic for a lot of people which is like 1/10000000 as specialized or technical. Another is, can you forgo or really get a substitute? There's also the idea that there's really not much of a choice. if you're going to an emergency room visit you don't necessarily have the ability to shop around and make a decision on which of 2 hosptials in a city to go to .

    Now for day to day care, yes, people could price and compare. I disagree that the most costly parts of medical care are conducive to this laissez faire free market option where buyers are informed, have subsitutes and plenty of competitors to choose from.

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    Re: White House asks Supreme Court to rule on healthcare law

    So then things people need to live should have their costs be socialized? Define what exactly we NEED to live, sir? Food, air, water, yes. Those are the things we NEED to live, as in, without, we ALL DIE, sick OR healthy. And only ONE of those things is free...for now. Everything else is just to make living more livable.

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