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Thread: Judge: Loughner can be made mentally fit for trial

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    Re: Judge: Loughner can be made mentally fit for trial

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    good reason we should have a "guilty by reason of insanity" and not "inocent by reason of insanity" for the jury or judge to decide on.
    Just because he may not be connected to our world and he doesn't understand our social standards/laws is no excuse.
    Well, I wouldn't say "it's no excuse". It's an excuse, but we still need to be protected, and furthermore, for many mentally ill people there is a level of sanity whilst they are medicated. There's a level of comprehension that they may become violent if they go off their meds...and yet, they still do it. (This may not always be true, and it may not have been true of Loughner, but it istrue sometimes.)

    I agree with you, "guilty but insane" is the superior result.

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    Re: Judge: Loughner can be made mentally fit for trial

    I like the idea of "guilty but insane." Loughner is mentally ill. What that means is that anything could set him off--vibrating electric wires speaking to him alone, whatever. Not much point in trying to blame Palin or anybody else.

    Sanity can be a terrible punishment...having to live with the knowledge of what you have done.

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    Re: Judge: Loughner can be made mentally fit for trial

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I like the idea of "guilty but insane." Loughner is mentally ill. What that means is that anything could set him off--vibrating electric wires speaking to him alone, whatever. Not much point in trying to blame Palin or anybody else.

    Sanity can be a terrible punishment...having to live with the knowledge of what you have done.
    I suppose. My compassion is for his victims and their families, and to a degree, for his parents. If I recall correctly, they tried to get him confined as dangerous but law enforcement wouldn't or couldn't pick him up.

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    Re: Judge: Loughner can be made mentally fit for trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    No, you don't know but you'll make the accusation anyway.

    This is yet another example of the sort of crazy speculation that went on following the murder of those six people, including a little girl. It was especially the fault of Sarah Palin, according to you, that this little girl was killed.

    There is a madness sweeping America.
    A madness stemming from the manipulation of beliefs through language, perhaps?

    He clearly had an obsession with language. His question to Gibbons was to the effect of what is government if words don't mean anything.

    Sign language courses.

    His writings examined through the lens of cognitive linguistics, "persuasion", etc. Provide an interesting perspective. Consider his use of the term currency as referring to language, instead of money for instance. I think he may have been using substitute terms to avoid scrutiny by search engines like boardtracker. We had a blogger here a while back show up because we were talking about him. He knew from boardtracker, which he claimed to monitor regularly.

    Couple that with netvocates responding to discussions in the course of their jobs, something talked about pretty openly on some boards I've looked at, and you could have the basis of his feelings of being "watched".

    I made a half joking post to this effect in the immediate aftermath of the shooting, based on a couple things I heard, and then got a little chill when I read everything available at that time.

    Just a thought.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  5. #45
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    Re: Judge: Loughner can be made mentally fit for trial

    I've noted several in this thread have questioned why he was not judicious in taking his meds since he was mentally ill. Meds for paranoid schizophrenia improve the symptoms dramatic, but they do not remove them completely in many cases.

    What ends up happening in many cases is the person becomes paranoid and begins to think the meds are part of an attempt to control his mind so quits taking them. I've always felt that anyone who has a history of violence with paranoid schizophrenia should be given the medication via injections that are long-term and time released and failing to come in for the medication should be reason enough for a very limited involuntary commitment to get the person medicated. Many tragedies like this one would be prevented by such a system.

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    Re: Judge: Loughner can be made mentally fit for trial

    I'm no expert of schizophrenia, but I do know that some of the meds make people taking them feel so slow and fuzzy that they stop. And I did know someone very well who suffered from manic-depression with three-year arcs. She saw a psychiatrist and also knew the symptoms and was in the medical field herself, but part of her disease was not being able to phone the shrink and do what she had to do.

    In Loughner's case part of the problem was that various agencies and institutions couldn't talk to each other because of HIPAA and FERPA. The New York Times ran a series of articles on him, and I was struck by how similar the dilemma was for the folks at Virginia Tech who knew that that guy was insane but couldn't speak up.

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    Re: Judge: Loughner can be made mentally fit for trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    I've noted several in this thread have questioned why he was not judicious in taking his meds since he was mentally ill. Meds for paranoid schizophrenia improve the symptoms dramatic, but they do not remove them completely in many cases.

    What ends up happening in many cases is the person becomes paranoid and begins to think the meds are part of an attempt to control his mind so quits taking them. I've always felt that anyone who has a history of violence with paranoid schizophrenia should be given the medication via injections that are long-term and time released and failing to come in for the medication should be reason enough for a very limited involuntary commitment to get the person medicated. Many tragedies like this one would be prevented by such a system.
    "What statues dont love them anymore." LOL I love the onion.

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