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Thread: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

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    Re: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenoa View Post
    I'm sure you could on mowing a lawn. What does that take - a couple of hours? Once a week? And, it's a kid. I believe I've stated that doesn't really work except for a few part-timers periodically. Apples and Oranges.

    The bottom line is if we were to double wages and add in a few more bennies - we'd be so deep in the red we'll never dig out. The legal migrant is willing to work for what is offered and they work hard and so fast the majority of them make well over minimum wage. We had a guy last year hand-planting seedlings for $.07 a tree. He planted 2,200 trees that day. That totals out to $154.00 for non-skilled labor ($15.40/hr based on a 10 hour day, which is what is usually worked). That's way above minimum wage. He also got 2 meals per day and room and board until the job was done. So I really don't understand why you think it would be financially feasible to double the pay and add more bennies.

    However, farmers are foreseeing a trend - it looks like that in the future there will be so many expensive hoops to jump through on hiring migrant workers, that in the end it will not be worth it. So, we're doing what is economically smart and dropping potential jobs by changing our product. Many farmers and ranchers (that I personnally know of) are doing the same thing.
    There is a difference between paying a migrant worker and an American and obviously you need American workers if the migrant workers you have are not enough. There is also mechanization.


    You just cannot price yourself out of the job market. I wish we were getting so much per bushel that we could pay a small fortune, but that's not the case.


    Did you miss the first sentance? I've underlined it in your post. In no way did I mean to imply that.
    [/QUOTE]


    You can't expect to pay less than what someone is willing to work for and expect to have employees. It might work with a migrant worker who going back to a dirt poor country when the season is over.

    I have a dollar in my hand. If you want it go mow my lawn. You want more than that then you must want something for nothing. See how that logic works. it won't get me someone to mow my lawn regardless if I say that dollar is plenty of money or if Itry to claim that since it doesn't doesn't require a college degree then I should pay you ****.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

    You didn't get what I told you. No one wants to work these jobs. They're tough. Pay is adequate, you just have to be willing to work (hard) for it. It's up to the employee how much they make. And, these are seasonal, temporary jobs.
    They don't want to work them for the salary offered. Let's reframe "no Americans want to do the job" into "no Americans want to do it for unlivable wages". The wages are so low BECAUSE of the fact there's cheap immigrant labor coming in and doing it.

    I don't agree with demonizing people that come into this country to better themselves...it's what this country is based on...it does hurt low skilled labor in America!

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    Re: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You would be mistaken. United Farm Workers invite Americans to 'Take Our Jobs' - Jul. 7, 2010

    Again, these are back-breaking jobs that pay minimum wage and offer no benefits. Farmers can't simply double or triple wages without raising prices substantially, and if they do that they will lose out to cheaper imported goods.
    That's ****ing ridiculous. First, there are more than 20 million illegals in this country and they are NOT all farmworkers. In fact, very few of them are since tens of thousands of work visas are given out every year to agriculture workers, most of whom are covered by Ceasar Chavez's farmworkers' union... a union that dispises illegals because they will work for a pittance under deplorable conditions, conditions Chavez fought for years to improve.

    Illegals are in every type of employment... fast food, restaurants, hotels, janitorial companies, loading docks, manufacturing, landscaping, construction, retail sales, you name an entry level job and there are illegals doing it. That's why unemployment is through the roof, and jobs our kids and students used to have to help them get an education are no longer available.

    Sorry, but it really gets on my last nerve when someone pulls out the old "jobs Americans won't do" saw, especially when a meatpacking plant somewhere is busted for hiring illegals and the next day hundreds of citizens and legal residents are lining up for a shot at one of those "jobs Americans won't do." Just don't go there, mkay? Don't ****ing go there.

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    Re: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    There is a difference between paying a migrant worker and an American and obviously you need American workers if the migrant workers you have are not enough. There is also mechanization.
    Our permanent employees are American citizens. They work for us full time. No turnover. Amazing since according to you, we pay them nothing.

    Mechanization? Do you think we do all this by hand and with mules? Please. There are some areas that cannot be machine planted and some crops that shouldn't and can't be machine picked. Trust me, the more mechanization there is, the more money we make. When you can cut out paying manhours, you can really make some money. So I'm all for more mechanization.

    You can't expect to pay less than what someone is willing to work for and expect to have employees. It might work with a migrant worker who going back to a dirt poor country when the season is over.

    I have a dollar in my hand. If you want it go mow my lawn. You want more than that then you must want something for nothing. See how that logic works. it won't get me someone to mow my lawn regardless if I say that dollar is plenty of money or if Itry to claim that since it doesn't doesn't require a college degree then I should pay you ****.
    You didn't read my post did you? Would you like to address the $15.40 per hour or more that it is possible to make? For temporary help, not an employee of my company. They are self-employed contractors, not my employee. You keep avoiding the facts that I'm posting to go on and on about having a kid mow my lawn for $1, which is nonsensical logic from the get-go. Apples and Oranges. And no, I'm not about to pay $60K for 3 weeks worth of work for unskilled, seasonal labor. I don't care if you have a PhD, if you're picking or planting it has zero influence on your pay for this job. You'd just be the most educated guy out there that day.
    I love how, in scary movies, the person yells out, "Hello?" As if the bad guy is gonna be like, "Yeah, I'm in the kitchen! Want a sandwich?"

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    Re: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    That's ****ing ridiculous. First, there are more than 20 million illegals in this country and they are NOT all farmworkers. In fact, very few of them are since tens of thousands of work visas are given out every year to agriculture workers, most of whom are covered by Ceasar Chavez's farmworkers' union... a union that dispises illegals because they will work for a pittance under deplorable conditions, conditions Chavez fought for years to improve.

    Illegals are in every type of employment... fast food, restaurants, hotels, janitorial companies, loading docks, manufacturing, landscaping, construction, retail sales, you name an entry level job and there are illegals doing it. That's why unemployment is through the roof, and jobs our kids and students used to have to help them get an education are no longer available.

    Sorry, but it really gets on my last nerve when someone pulls out the old "jobs Americans won't do" saw, especially when a meatpacking plant somewhere is busted for hiring illegals and the next day hundreds of citizens and legal residents are lining up for a shot at one of those "jobs Americans won't do." Just don't go there, mkay? Don't ****ing go there.
    Actually, you've missed the target by about 50%, which I would think casts some doubt on your analysis. The actual number of illegals is now estimated to be about 11 million. Otherwise, you are flailing at a strawman. No one ever claimed that they were all, or mostly, or in any particular amount, farm workers. But it is a fact that many farm workers are illegals, and it is also a fact that Americans are not clamoring to take those low wage agricultural jobs.

    Why is it that you imagine employers are so eager to face criminal liability by hiring illegal aliens when they could instead hire Americans or legal residents at the same rate? Do they just hate America that much?

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    Re: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

    Now - it the best time for Alabama to set-up road blocks on all main highways leading into neighboring states.
    There will be hundreds of thousands of illegals trying to escape.

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    Re: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

    U.S. District Judge Sharon Blackburn ruled that federal law does not prohibit state officials from checking the immigration status of students or suspects pulled over by police. Blackburn also refused to stop provisions that make it a misdemeanor for illegal immigrants not to carry immigration papers, allow police to hold suspected illegal immigrants without bond and bar state courts from enforcing contracts entered into by illegal immigrants.
    Clearly something has to be done with the sheer number of undocumented residents but my concerns are has "suspects" been defined and how will they actually enforce it without involving racial profiling?
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    Re: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Actually, you've missed the target by about 50%, which I would think casts some doubt on your analysis. The actual number of illegals is now estimated to be about 11 million. Otherwise, you are flailing at a strawman. No one ever claimed that they were all, or mostly, or in any particular amount, farm workers. But it is a fact that many farm workers are illegals, and it is also a fact that Americans are not clamoring to take those low wage agricultural jobs.
    Because they would be paid even less than illegals. An illegal gets $7.00 and hour. If someone here legally takes this job they end up with a good bit less after taxes have been taken out.

    Why is it that you imagine employers are so eager to face criminal liability by hiring illegal aliens when they could instead hire Americans or legal residents at the same rate? Do they just hate America that much?
    Just think of all the taxes they are able to avoid. As far as the numbers here, I do not believe there is an accurate count.
    Last edited by 1Perry; 10-01-11 at 10:42 AM.

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    Re: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

    Quote Originally Posted by dixiesolutions View Post
    There will be hundreds of thousands of illegals trying to escape.
    Yeah, you're right there.

    Hispanic students vanish from Alabama schools - Yahoo! News

    BIRMINGHAM, Alabama (AP) Hispanic students have started vanishing from Alabama public schools in the wake of a court ruling that upheld the state's tough new law cracking down on illegal immigration.

    Education officials say scores of immigrant families have withdrawn their children from classes or kept them home this week, afraid that sending the kids to school would draw attention from authorities.
    I hope many other states follow Alabama and pass similar laws leaving all hispanics to just live ina few (soon to be) bankrupt states.

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    Re: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

    this exact same result was seen in Oklahoma a couple of years back. Oklahoma is currently sitting on an unemployment rate of 5.5%.

    it's a good day to be from Alabama.

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