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Thread: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

  1. #11
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    Re: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Yes, because everyone knows about this and everyone can get up and move to those places on a moments notice.

    Not everyone has the internet. Not everyone can just move their family to the job in no time at all, especially if they are out of work and have no money or are stuck in a lease. Plus, few who already have a family to support are going to be able to take a minimum wage, no benefits job, especially if that job really doesn't allow for the person to make up for that low pay, no benefits with another job.

    Both sides of people, those who are unemployed and those employers looking for workers, need to work harder to understand the meaning of compromise.
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    Re: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Yes, because everyone knows about this and everyone can get up and move to those places on a moments notice.

    Not everyone has the internet. Not everyone can just move their family to the job in no time at all, especially if they are out of work and have no money or are stuck in a lease. Plus, few who already have a family to support are going to be able to take a minimum wage, no benefits job, especially if that job really doesn't allow for the person to make up for that low pay, no benefits with another job.

    Both sides of people, those who are unemployed and those employers looking for workers, need to work harder to understand the meaning of compromise.
    The unemployment rates in Alabama and Georgia are around 9.5% and 10.5% respectively. I don't think there's a shortage of nearby candidates.

    The bottom line is still that there is no free lunch. If you want to "solve" the illegal immigration problem in this manner then the price will be paid by businesses who rely on that cheap labor and consumers who benfit from lower prices.

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    Re: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The unemployment rates in Alabama and Georgia are around 9.5% and 10.5% respectively. I don't think there's a shortage of nearby candidates.

    The bottom line is still that there is no free lunch. If you want to "solve" the illegal immigration problem in this manner then the price will be paid by businesses who rely on that cheap labor and consumers who benfit from lower prices.
    First of all, giving the unemployment rate for a state does nothing to show how that affects how easy it may or may not be for a person to take those agriculture jobs. If a person's issue with moving is they are in a lease for so much time, then they are really unlikely to take a job, especially a min. wage, no benefits, hard labor job that requires them to drive 50-100 miles out of their way because they live in the city. You have no idea how "nearby" the candidates for those jobs are.

    Also, how many of those candidates can actually live off of those wages being offered? That is an issue. A big one, now that we have a healthcare bill coming into effect soon that requires people to have health insurance. Most people can't afford to support a family off of min. wage alone. Even those above min. wage, usually do not have health insurance.

    And, how many people know about those jobs, especially those who could pretty easily take advantage of them? That article has been out since 2010, yet this is the first time I have seen it. How in the hell is someone who is unemployed, likely not to have regular internet access, and/or might not even have a home going to know about this stuff?

    The solution is going to take a lot of things. Instilling into young people that they need to be willing to work to earn their way. Making farm owners realize that they have to be willing to offer more than just min. wage for these jobs. It doesn't necessarily have to be common benefits and/or higher wages, although that is likely the easiest. Maybe offering so much food to the families of workers or providing for their housing and/or transportation. Workers, especially those who are on assistance, need to be willing to take what jobs they can find. But there also should be changes in lease agreements and housing costs.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

    >First of all, giving the unemployment rate for a state does nothing to
    >show how that affects how easy it may or may not be for a person to
    >take those agriculture jobs. If a person's issue with moving is they
    >are in a lease for so much time, then they are really unlikely to take
    >a job, especially a min. wage, no benefits, hard labor job that
    >requires them to drive 50-100 miles out of their way because they live
    >in the city. You have no idea how "nearby" the candidates for those
    >jobs are.

    That's true, but realistically I don't see many people -- other than immigrants -- moving long distances to take a minimum wage job that pays no benefits and requires long hours of back-breaking labor.

    >Also, how many of those candidates can actually live off of those wages
    >being offered? That is an issue. A big one, now that we have a
    >healthcare bill coming into effect soon that requires people to have
    >health insurance. Most people can't afford to support a family off of
    >min. wage alone. Even those above min. wage, usually do not have
    >health insurance.

    Yes, that is the problem. That's why shutting off the supply of immigrant workers will put many of these companies out of business, to be replaced by foreign suppliers.

    As far as health insurance goes, these workers would not be subject to the individual mandate because they fall below the miniumum income requirement. Employers might be subject to it if they employ more than 50 full-time workers. But I suspect that most of the workers are seasonal and not full time, and even if they were it would just cost the employer $750 per employee to not provide insurance -- or about $2 per day per employee. In effect, employers would end up paying an extra $0.25 an hour.

    >And, how many people know about those jobs, especially those who could
    >pretty easily take advantage of them? That article has been out since
    >2010, yet this is the first time I have seen it. How in the hell is
    >someone who is unemployed, likely not to have regular internet access,
    >and/or might not even have a home going to know about this stuff?

    The story made national headlines when it came out. As the article said, they got 4,000 responses in short order. And out of that, what? Was it two people who actually took them up on their offer?

    >The solution is going to take a lot of things. Instilling into young
    >people that they need to be willing to work to earn their way. Making
    >farm owners realize that they have to be willing to offer more than
    >just min. wage for these jobs. It doesn't necessarily have to be
    >common benefits and/or higher wages, although that is likely the
    >easiest. Maybe offering so much food to the families of workers or
    >providing for their housing and/or transportation. Workers, especially
    >those who are on assistance, need to be willing to take what jobs they
    >can find. But there also should be changes in lease agreements and
    >housing costs.

    These are not realistic solutions. If the farmers raise pay they will also have to raise prices and they will no longer be competitive. Or if they can raise prices and stay in business then consumers will pay for it in higher food prices. No ... free ... lunch.

    The solution is not to kick out illegal immigrants. The solution is to increase immigration quotas to realistic levels to provide for as many legal immigrants as the economy requires.

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    Re: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I'm sure they would be more than happy to hire Americans or legal immigrants, but no one is lining up to do back-breaking work for low wages. There is no free lunch. If you want to shut off the supply of cheap labor the cost will be higher food and construction prices and exporting jobs to lower wage countries.

    What's needed is a more realistic quota for low-wage immigrant visas. Republicans need to drop their nonsensical opposition to immigration reform unless we first shut off the flow of illegal immigrants. These are two sides of the same coin.
    I wonder what the hell we did before illegals, we picked our own fruit. Illegals are taking 20 million good American jobs right here at home. Talk about outsourcing. Then you go on to say "cheap labor" you mean young people will not work for piece work. All I can say is America has become soft with all the entitlements we hand out so you don't have to work. America's work ethic has eroded to the point, where American workers would rather be on the dole than work in a field.
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    Re: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

    I'll just let you guys see this Link to article

    veggies.jpg
    I love how, in scary movies, the person yells out, "Hello?" As if the bad guy is gonna be like, "Yeah, I'm in the kitchen! Want a sandwich?"

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    Re: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    I wonder what the hell we did before illegals, we picked our own fruit. Illegals are taking 20 million good American jobs right here at home. Talk about outsourcing. Then you go on to say "cheap labor" you mean young people will not work for piece work. All I can say is America has become soft with all the entitlements we hand out so you don't have to work. America's work ethic has eroded to the point, where American workers would rather be on the dole than work in a field.
    Do you think this is a recent phenomenon? There have been immigrants working in the fields for decades. Before that there were slaves. The days of the family farm, where the kids and other family would all chip in come harvest time are over.

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    Re: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

    AdamT..

    Baloney, dude! Yes tis true farm work isn't for grown ups generally, but never was it intended to be unless you were a slave in the 1800's. I picked fruit and veggies for 3 years when I was much younger. Got pretty good at it as well. Made minimum wage but it was way better than not making any money at all. My parents said if I wanted to buy something, then i had to work for it. Odd how that all works out in the end eh?


    Tim-
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    Re: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    AdamT..

    Baloney, dude! Yes tis true farm work isn't for grown ups generally, but never was it intended to be unless you were a slave in the 1800's. I picked fruit and veggies for 3 years when I was much younger. Got pretty good at it as well. Made minimum wage but it was way better than not making any money at all. My parents said if I wanted to buy something, then i had to work for it. Odd how that all works out in the end eh?


    Tim-
    That's terrific. If the farmers can find enough kids or whoever to fill their needs that's great. But they can't. That's the problem.

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    Re: Judge lets key parts of Alabama immigration law stand

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Then those people need to get off their butts and either do more work themselves or hire American workers to do it. They do not have a right to hire illegal immigrants to do the work.
    They hire illegal immigrants because they can pay them under the table less than minimum wage and they dont complain...and still CHARGE US ridiculous prices for fruit and vegetables....its a win...win...win...win for them...and we get to pay for their child births, their trips to the emergency room...we get to pay for law enforcement costs and the horrific cost of their incarceration and all the costs related to endless deportation procedures...and we get to pay for our own kids tuition and theirs when you have MORON POLITICIANS like Perry.....

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