Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 91

Thread: Drug testing surprise

  1. #61
    Student Smokified's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Last Seen
    12-06-11 @ 09:56 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    166

    Re: Drug testing surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I'm talking about one person taking public money to work heavy equipment versus another guy taking public money to stay off the street. Both are taking public money. Apples - apples. Except the former is a bigger risk to public safety if he's intoxicated.
    One person is earning money performing tasks that need to be done. Are you and your neighbors just going to go out and grade the road? One person is probably also already being randomly tested. I don't know if you were paying attention when they went through fruits in kindergarten, your apples don't really look the same to me.

    If you are OK funding the drug habits of capable people who refuse to work, then take your money and do so.
    Last edited by Smokified; 09-28-11 at 04:07 PM.

  2. #62
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    12,453
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Drug testing surprise

    The really amusing thing aboit this entire issue is that ALCOHOL is the poors drug of choice.

    Cheap and easy to get.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  3. #63
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Theoretical Physics Lab
    Last Seen
    01-06-15 @ 11:06 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    25,120

    Re: Drug testing surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix
    then why not test for alcohol, tobacco, and obesity?

    the prevalence of negative "externalities" is almost certainly much higher for all of these.

    i don't support testing for any of them. you're either doing a good job, or you're not. since workers have basically no rights these days, a business can fire someone without an intrusive piss test. i'm for preventing businesses from testing with the exception of driving / other high risk jobs, and in cases of accidents.
    They do. The only difference is that booze, cigarettes, and food aren't illegal. Oh, and some of the more "progressive" companies are indeed punishing the "sinners", specifically smokers. A lot will refuse outdoor smoke breaks or make no indoor facilities allowable for them (a real problem if you're on the 32nd floor). Some will make you pay a LOT more for insurance. Some will even not hire if they know you to be a smoker.

    That's just the way of the world.

  4. #64
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Drug testing surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokified View Post
    One person is earning money performing tasks that need to be done. Are you and your neighbors just going to go out and grade the road? One person is probably also already being randomly tested. I don't know if you were paying attention when they went through fruits in kindergarten, your apples don't really look the same to me.

    If you are OK funding the drug habits of capable people who refuse to work, then take your money and do so.
    In both cases it is taxpayer's money being spent. As I understand it that was the rationalization for the drug testing -- not to punish or humiliate people who are down on their luck.

    Of course there is no basis for your assumption that the typical welfare recipient is a capable person who simply *refuses* to work, just as there was no basis to think that many welfare applicants were on drugs. As we've seen, the evidence suggests that welfare applicants are LESS likely to test positive than the average Joe.

  5. #65
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Mecca
    Last Seen
    01-14-15 @ 07:04 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,426

    Re: Drug testing surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokified View Post
    Maybe you don't pay taxes, but I do. I am very concerned with where my tax money is going because I work hard for it. I know for a fact that there are many many many people on welfare that are not utilizing the benefits to better their lives. Just as I would not hand a bum on the street $20 to go buy a dime sack and a six pack, I would not want my taxes going towards those kinds of habits either.
    Are you seriously trying to insinuate that if someone receives some of their tax dollars back when they hit hard times via a welfare check then that necessarily means that they are spending your tax dollars on drugs if they test positive for drugs because someone passed them a joint at a party?

    You authoritarian radicals types make no sense whatsoever. You need to learn how to mind your own business.

  6. #66
    Professor
    Marilyn Monroe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Tennessee
    Last Seen
    03-06-14 @ 03:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,137

    Re: Drug testing surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I think this whole drug testing thing is discriminatory. What will they do if a recipient does test positive? Take away all that they have? Remove their children?

    They might just be selling the drugs. I read somewhere that many dealer's don't use.
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

  7. #67
    200M yrs of experience
    Frolicking Dinosaurs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Southeastern USA
    Last Seen
    05-07-12 @ 12:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    2,166

    Re: Drug testing surprise

    I'm not going to get into the arm-wrestling about who is more likely to use illicit drugs. What I will say is those with problematic alcohol and drug use as a group to tend to lose employment involuntarily, have more trouble finding new employment due to the history of having been terminated multiple times and therefore would be more likely to be receiving benefits due to having a low or no income. The problem with testing only the person applying for the benefits is that an adult member of the household without a drug / alcohol problem will usually be the one making sure their is income to pay rent and put food on the table.
    I don't want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was wedding between the religious fundamentalists and political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it. ~ Billy Graham in Parade magazine February 1, 1981.

  8. #68
    200M yrs of experience
    Frolicking Dinosaurs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Southeastern USA
    Last Seen
    05-07-12 @ 12:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    2,166

    Re: Drug testing surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe View Post
    I think this whole drug testing thing is discriminatory. What will they do if a recipient does test positive? Take away all that they have? Remove their children?

    They might just be selling the drugs. I read somewhere that many dealer's don't use.
    First, the non-users who deal drugs tend to be doing well enough not to bother with things like food stamps. Most street-level dealers are supporting their own drug habit by dealing.

    I doubt children would automatically be removed for failing the drug screen - though they would likely open a protective services case to check on the welfare of any children in the home. Not sure what other states do, but TN drug screens women giving birth and opens a protective services case if they test positive for alcohol or marijuana and often remove the child at least temporarily for things like methamphetamine, opiates and cocaine.
    I don't want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was wedding between the religious fundamentalists and political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it. ~ Billy Graham in Parade magazine February 1, 1981.

  9. #69
    Sage
    Dittohead not!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The Golden State
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    41,561

    Re: Drug testing surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    What gets me, and is often overlooked by pundants is this. If the point of testing is to punish users by removing their benefits, how is that any different than simply taking benefits away from capable people? If the goal is to remove those that are unworthy, then do so, and we don't need drug testing to do this. Just manpower. That said, and here's the rub.. What about the children? What aboutt he kiddies of all these abusers, and fraudulent recipients of welfare dough? Regardless of why thy are removed, don't the children still suffer? This is the argument from progressives, and even some moderate republicans for decades, and to some extent the argument has merit. Whehn we remove benefits of welfare recipients, what we're really doing is taking away (in some quantifiable measure) from the children of these people.

    My question is. If we all agree that we as tax payers shouldn't be paying benefits to capable, and able-bodied people, and only to those that are deserving, how do we resolve the moral obligation to protect the children?

    By the way.. I'm a conservative, but I've never really heard a good argument for how we stop the waste, abuse and fraud, and yet still find a way to protect those that are simply victims of this circumstance? The same can be said about the illegal immigration issue, and that MOST illegal immigrants in this country are actually hard working, and notwithstanding the illegal act of coming to America, are themselves honest people willing to do what it takes for their families.. How do we fix this conundrum?


    Tim-
    Good points.

    There is no simplistic solution to welfare, or illegal immigration, or any other problem we face, at least not one that works. It is pretty obvious that the purpose of drug testing welfare recipients was to score political points. Now, it appears that their game has backfired. But, what are they going to do with recipients who test positive? cut off their benefits? Then what, is that going to make them productive citizens? Do we put their kids in foster care? Open up orphanages? What?

    And, if we insist that able bodied people work, where are they going to work? Even people with job skills are having a difficult time of it just now.

    It's easy to make a moral judgement and say, "Those people need to quit doing drugs and work for a living". Bringing that about is a lot more difficult.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  10. #70
    Professor
    Marilyn Monroe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Tennessee
    Last Seen
    03-06-14 @ 03:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,137

    Re: Drug testing surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    First, the non-users who deal drugs tend to be doing well enough not to bother with things like food stamps. Most street-level dealers are supporting their own drug habit by dealing.

    I doubt children would automatically be removed for failing the drug screen - though they would likely open a protective services case to check on the welfare of any children in the home. Not sure what other states do, but TN drug screens women giving birth and opens a protective services case if they test positive for alcohol or marijuana and often remove the child at least temporarily for things like methamphetamine, opiates and cocaine.
    I seriously doubt drug dealers aren't going to take advantage of the freebies of welfare. If the dealers aren't on welfare personally, their families are.
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •