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Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

OscarB63 said:
why would a wiccan be living in an area without wiccan church? why would a muslim be living in an area without a mosque? if they really gave a damn about their religion, they would live in an area that had a church to cater to their need.
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Really? There are many reasons why someone might live in an area without a place of worship for their religious beliefs. Not all religions, even major ones, require strict attendance records for a person to be devoted to that religion.

OscarB63 said:
from what I read, all that is required is that the church agree to allow the criminal to attend
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Not all religions have a church. Some religions involve something more akin to prayer meetings than actual church services, normally occurring in someone's private home rather than a set aside building/commercial space. And, I have known a number of people who attend a church outside of the town that they live in. What I have read said nothing about how churches are approved for this. There has to be some approval process, since otherwise there would be nothing to prevent someone from simply setting up a "religion of the football watchers" and simply watching football every Sunday as their church attendance.

OscarB63 said:
then they can pick any church they want, sit on the back row and sleep for an hour or so each sunday. nothing says they have to participate, only that they must attend. my father slept through church for 30 years
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Are you sure nothing says they have to participate? Afterall, someone has to verify they actually sat through the service, what would keep that someone from saying the person isn't there since they aren't participating? Since the point is to try to get criminals to be more religious, I doubt the only stipulation is to attend the service, allowing a person to sleep through it.

And this still doesn't prevent the person from being ridiculed through the service by others in attendance/pastor for their personal beliefs/choices. Such ridicule could easily be considered cruel and/or unusual punishment.

OscarB63 said:
why do you assume that a church would do so?
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Why do you assume some wouldn't? I knew plenty of Southern Baptists who would have zero problem telling people they were going to hell directly to their face for being a certain religion or not believing exactly what they believed. I had a pastor at a Church of God assume that I was leading "a life of sin" simply because I was in the Navy. In fact, he included it as part of his sermon, including pointing me out, just minutes after I met him. He didn't even know me or anything more about me than that I was in the Navy and my father. I was so angry and humiliated, even if it wasn't true. I gladly volunteered to go down and relieve my stepmother of babysitting duties for the rest of the sermon. I highly doubt a person doing that for punishment would get that option.
 
liblady said:
never said there was an establishment........i posted about the interpretation. and of course i wouldn't choose jail. you're making my point there.
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You have no strength of conviction to your stated beliefs. VERY dissapointed in you.

It costs the taxpayers about $75 a day in that particular county to house nonviolent misdemeanor offenders. We are all up in arms over a program that offers choices to people that could actually be beneficial to the individual and cost effective to the county residents....and why? Because very tolerant left leaning folks dont quite understand the meaning of the word tolerant.
 
VanceMack said:
They have Afrikan nondenominational churches. The have many other nondenominational churches. My guess is that somewhere in the county you might find one that is acceptable to you. Then again...if you were Budhist you probably would already know of the existence of said church there, right? Surely you wouldnt want them to ESTABLISH a religion for you?

Or not...choose your jail sentence and fine. Choice is GOOD!
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My guess is somewhere in the county there is not an "athiest" church so I would not find one acceptable to me.

This still does not address the preferential treatment and the "get out of jail free card" aspect given to regular church goers though.

I would not mind this program if there was an option for charge dismissal via a venue other than church attendance, abnd that if you are a regular church goer then you had to do community service instead of just maintaining your normal routine as "punishment".

It is the imbalance and the preferential treatment that is the issue with this for me, otherwise I would have no problem with this as an option. so long as there was not a class that was not immune to having to make any sort of sacrifice whatsoever.
 
VanceMack said:
Then they choose to not take advantage of the program and serve their jail sentence, like they would have had to without the choice. Or...they choose to go to a nondenominational church that generally accepts everyone, participates in a community (as they would in any court ordered 12 step program) without the requirement to be baptized into anyones faith, checks in weekly with the officer, and at the end of the year has his record expunged. Maybe even makes a few friends or is (gasp) a positive influence on someone else.

isnt choice a wonderful thing?
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LOL! That's such a load of steaming horse ****! Most people in jail and certainly in Alabama jails are black. If there happens to be a Nation of Islam temple nearby I could envision a number of blacks choosing Nation of Islam over the Homewood Baptist Church in Birmingham. One could then reasonably expect a number of black criminals to attend the Nation of Islam church and convert to Muslim. Somehow I can't see the State of Alabama being real damn happy about the possibility of creating more Muslims as a result of a court order from a Christian judge. :lamo
 
VanceMack said:
You have no strength of conviction to your stated beliefs. VERY dissapointed in you.

It costs the taxpayers about $75 a day in that particular county to house nonviolent misdemeanor offenders. We are all up in arms over a program that offers choices to people that could actually be beneficial to the individual and cost effective to the county residents....and why? Because very tolerant left leaning folks dont quite understand the meaning of the word tolerant.
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No. We are "all up in arms" because there would be no problem with alleviating that cost by simply offering completely secular alternatives, such as counseling or community service, instead of injecting religion into the options at all.
 
marduc said:
My guess is somewhere in the county there is not an "athiest" church so I would not find one acceptable to me.

This still does not address the preferential treatment and the "get out of jail free card" aspect given to regular church goers though.

I would not mind this program if there was an option for charge dismissal via a venue other than church attendance, abnd that if you are a regular church goer then you had to do community service instead of just maintaining your normal routine as "punishment".

It is the imbalance and the preferential treatment that is the issue with this for me, otherwise I would have no problem with this as an option. so long as there was not a class that was not immune to having to make any sort of sacrifice whatsoever.
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But since you only know one or two lines from an article or video you reallhy dont KNOW the answers to any of those questions. Perhaps you should make an inquiry. Let me ask you...should you be picked up as a DUI offender and be given the choice to attend AA or go to jail and pay a hefty fine, which would you choose?
 
Risky Thicket said:
LOL! That's such a load of steaming horse ****! Most people in jail and certainly in Alabama jails are black. If there happens to be a Nation of Islam temple nearby I could envision a number of blacks choosing Nation of Islam over the Homewood Baptist Church in Birmingham. One could then reasonably expect a number of black criminals to attend the Nation of Islam church and convert to Muslim. Somehow I can't see the State of Alabama being real damn happy about the possibility of creating more Muslims as a result of a court order from a Christian judge. :lamo
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There are actually mosques in Jefferson county, shows how much you really know.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Most people in jail and certainly in Alabama jails are black.
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speaking of steaming loads of horse****.

60% of males in Alabama jails are black, hardly "most" and there are actually more white females in Alabama jails than there are black females.
 
VanceMack said:
But since you only know one or two lines from an article or video you reallhy dont KNOW the answers to any of those questions. Perhaps you should make an inquiry. Let me ask you...should you be picked up as a DUI offender and be given the choice to attend AA or go to jail and pay a hefty fine, which would you choose?
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There are non-religious AA meetings.
 
Risky Thicket said:
LOL! That's such a load of steaming horse ****! Most people in jail and certainly in Alabama jails are black. If there happens to be a Nation of Islam temple nearby I could envision a number of blacks choosing Nation of Islam over the Homewood Baptist Church in Birmingham. One could then reasonably expect a number of black criminals to attend the Nation of Islam church and convert to Muslim. Somehow I can't see the State of Alabama being real damn happy about the possibility of creating more Muslims as a result of a court order from a Christian judge. :lamo
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Speaking of steaming loads of crap...do you actually KNOW if there are any Muslim religous groups in the servicing area? Do you know if they would accept as a condition that you travel to your normal house of worship four counties away provided that you still met weekly and had a weekly check in with the police? Other than just the standard kneejerk liberal response to anything religious...what have hyou got to offer? I mean...besides your usual steaming pile of ****.
 
Risky Thicket said:
How many times must I say you don't know what the **** he meant?
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It doesn't matter if I know what he meant. The only thing that ****ing matters is what he said. Jesus ****ING CHRIST you are thickheaded.
 
Risky Thicket said:
How many times must I say you don't know what the **** he meant?
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and how many times must you be told that it doesn't matter what he meant, only what he actually said?
 
roguenuke said:
I'd go to jail. I'd also have good grounds to fight that someone in a similar situation to me but with different religious beliefs was basically offered a less severe punishment because of their religious beliefs alone. That is discrimination.
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It is not discrimination if you have a choice.
 
VanceMack said:
Speaking of steaming loads of crap...do you actually KNOW if there are any Muslim religous groups in the servicing area? Do you know if they would accept as a condition that you travel to your normal house of worship four counties away provided that you still met weekly and had a weekly check in with the police? Other than just the standard kneejerk liberal response to anything religious...what have hyou got to offer? I mean...besides your usual steaming pile of ****.
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Oh Oh Oh! I can answer that one. Not a damn thing.
 
Thunder said:
I've never been to prison or jail.
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so then, how do you know who gets raped there? is researching prison rape one of your hobbies?
 
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roguenuke said:
There are non-religious AA meetings.
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Non religous as in not God oriented, or that DONT offer as a basic tenant a reliance on a higher power? And in your county? What if there wasnt one in your county?

keep dancing. You know the truth....so do I. Given the choice between AA and jail, MOST people would choose AA.
 
Look, people. The bottom line is this it is clearly an attempt at social engineering by a conservative judge in a very conservative state. Social engineering is what conservatives always accuse liberals of trying to do. You've heard it many times. Well, here is a clear and obvious attempt at social engineering from the far right that is support by posters here who are conservative. Apparently social engineering isn't wrong when it is conducted by the far right. :shock:
 
Thunder said:
ah, and the racist lies begin.

care to back up this ignorance?
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DOJ statistics are not lies. based on the % of general population, blacks are heavily over-represented in the prison population. of course, there are many people who will argue that this is due solely to racism and not because blacks commit more crime per capita than whites.
 
roguenuke said:
You are assuming those options are available. Again, what churches are in the area? Who gets to approve your choice of church attendance? How close does the church have to be?
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Perhaps you are making this more complicated than it need be, or actually is. I feel comfortable that the judge and sheriff's department can come to a resolution on these issues.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Look, people. The bottom line is this it is clearly an attempt at social engineering by a conservative judge in a very conservative state. Social engineering is what conservatives always accuse liberals of trying to do. You've heard it many times. Well, here is a clear and obvious attempt at social engineering from the far right that is support by posters here who are conservative. Apparently social engineering isn't wrong when it is conducted by the far right. :shock:
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how, by any stretch of the imagination, is this social engineering?
 
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