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Thread: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

  1. #81
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    [QUOTE=VanceMack;1059829490]
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I'd go to jail. I'd also have good grounds to fight that someone in a similar situation to me but with different religious beliefs was basically offered a less severe punishment because of their religious beliefs alone. That is discrimination. The law would then be struck down somewhere within our judicial system since it is religious discrimination and violates the 1st and 14th Amendments. It would cost them a lot more in legal battles than it would ever have cost to just offer a general community service program.

    Don't feel like actually debating me on the issues I brought up then, huh?[/QUOTE]You read a two line sentence in a two paragraph article and pretend to know if everyone is offered the sentence...if there are or arent local churches of multiple denomination, or what the travel restrictions are? And Im supposed to debate that? Heres the thing...Im willing to bet they have a lot more sentencing options for diffent people other than go to jail or go meet with Pastor John at the Antioch baptist church on 12th street. You know little if anything about the judge, the community, their typical sentencing...but because religion is involved you pretend you 'know' how this is a violation of the constitution.
    The way this is presented says that it is. Did you watch the video? The sheriff said that the punishment included church attendance every Sunday. If they don't want to make it sound like a violation of the Constitution, it is their responsibility to clarify what is being offered.

    I do not attend church because my personal religious beliefs are personal and not necessary to be shared with any other person. This would be a violation of my freedom of religion since I am being forced to learn attend a religious service that has nothing to do with my beliefs as a punishment for a crime. It is a violation of the 14th because someone in a similar situation as me legally, but who has religious beliefs that have them attending church regularly, is being offered a less severe punishment just due to their religious beliefs already coinciding with an established religion, which is part of the punishment, while mine do not include community acceptance or sharing of my beliefs.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  2. #82
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    You'd be fine if the criminal chose a Buddhist temple or Hindu temple or a Muslim mosque over a Christian church? Do you believe the judge in Alabama would be fine with any of these alternative or do you think Christian church is what the judge meant?
    he said "church of their choice" NOT "christian church of their choice". so you tell me what he meant
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I would bet they also use that as a component of sentencing. They probably also mandate the occasional substance abuse treatment program. Id be willing to bet they even court order anger management classes, smoking cessation classes, and parenting classes. But because religion is mentioned...THIS we must become fixated upon.

    Please...should the unfortunate occasion ever occur whereby you are set before this judges court...choose option A. I hear the Kale and Pepper steak on friday is to die for.
    none of which is unconstitutional. the establishment clause has long been practically interpreted as separation of church and state. this is very clear to me.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    You'd be fine if the criminal chose a Buddhist temple or Hindu temple or a Muslim mosque over a Christian church? Do you believe the judge in Alabama would be fine with any of these alternative or do you think Christian church is what the judge meant?
    i would choose wiccan services.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  5. #85
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    You'd be fine if the criminal chose a Buddhist temple or Hindu temple or a Muslim mosque over a Christian church? Do you believe the judge in Alabama would be fine with any of these alternative or do you think Christian church is what the judge meant?
    It doesn't matter what he meant, just what he said. And I give less than a damn if he goes to Jewish services or muslim services or to the church of the Fonz, ayyyyyy, for all I care he can sit in jail. Oh wait don't they have religious services in jailhouses that one can choose to go to....damn that's unconstitutional.
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    I think that if they offer a variety of church types they should meet the Constitutional standard. If they only offer one type of church, that could be construed as promotion, but if many or all are offered then it is not promotion.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    he said "church of their choice" NOT "christian church of their choice". so you tell me what he meant
    And which churches are in that area? Who decides if the church is acceptable or not? What about people who do not fit into any established church? Who prevents a church from ridiculing a person for their personal religious beliefs or other choices?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    strawman, I never said there weren't
    not a straw man, your claim relies on the claim that "there were not many" My position is that if there is at least 1, or the potential for at least 1, then your counter objection is irrelevant. Therefore. if "1) there are church going people who commit crimes." your counterclaim is meaningless.


    how so? in either case the offender has the choice to not go to jail
    One person has a choice of carrying on with their normal routine, the other has to make sacrifices.

    This is like saying.. "ok your punishment is to watch college football all day on saturday"

    For me this is not a punishment, for my girlfriend this is certainly a punishment.

    unequal treatment.

    I would argue that the chances of a person who goes to chruch every sunday doing so,, is so small as to be irrelevent to the discussion. I am a "church going person" and I don't go every sunday. I don't know anyone who attends every sunday.
    Ahh you do not know anyone who does not attend church every sunday so they do not exist huh? Once again any # greater than 1 in this category is too many. I suppose the members of the clergy are NOT in church every sunday? I suppose members of the cleergy have never committed a crime?

    If there is 1 this is too many.
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And which churches are in that area? Who decides if the church is acceptable or not? What about people who do not fit into any established church? Who prevents a church from ridiculing a person for their personal religious beliefs or other choices?
    ridiculing people isn't against the law.
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    he said "church of their choice" NOT "christian church of their choice". so you tell me what he meant
    Hard to say as the judge sounds delusional. I mean it is the same state where a judge refused to take the 10 C off the wall in a courthouse. "Church" in Alabama almost never means anything but "Christian place of worship". Alabama seems to have a problem separating "Christian" church and state. The judge did not say "place of worship", he said "church". So you tell me what he meant.










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