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Thread: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

  1. #551
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post

    A step is not establishing and, besides, the Christian Church is already very well established.
    A step (law) towards establishment of religion is a law respecting an establishment of religion and is unconstitutional.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    if the person objects due to religious reasons...they can always go to jail like they were supposed to. no one is forcing them to go to church.
    well, yeah, that's kinda the point. It's not a mandatory punishment, it's an alternative punitive action meant to straighten the offender out before they go too far. There are a lot of alternative programs available, and the only reason this one is making headlines is because it involves the dreaded "R" word.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    What service? Preaching about the Bible or teaching people about a specific religion's beliefs, no matter what those beliefs are, is not a community service. That is what we are talking about here. It isn't like those offered this choice are required to actually get any help or go to any other specific church meetings or take any self-improvement classes that are only being offered by the churches. They are only required to attend church services, as in Sunday preaching hour(s), to hear about that church's particular views on how a higher power expects a person to behave and what may happen in the afterlife should you not follow those expectations.

    No one has a problem with a church being able to be involved in certain punishments when the religion of the church has little to do with what the point of the involvement is. The point of having someone do community service is to have the person make up for something they did by helping others. Even if the community service is being performed at a soup kitchen run by a church, the point of the soup kitchen is not to preach about the beliefs of that church but to help people which is in line with the secular point of the punishment.
    I know, right? All that religious bull**** about loving your neighbor and acting with character and integrity, who want's that in their community.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post

    I know, right? All that religious bull**** about loving your neighbor and acting with character and integrity, who want's that in their community.
    There's nothing at all wrong with that message and I would hope that all convicts seek out that message and take it to heart once they're done serving their time -- but while they're in the custody of the state, I would hope the state is not crossing the church/state line by sanctioning religion.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    I'd take death rather than being dumbed down and lied to
    yes, that's always an option.

    I take it then you don't bother with left wing websites.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Why? The Supreme Court has ruled on it many times already.

    • 1948: McCollum v. Board of Education Dist. 71

    Court finds religious instruction in public schools a violation of the establishment clause and therefore unconstitutional.

    • 1961: Torcaso v. Watkins

    Court holds that the state of Maryland cannot require applicants for public office to swear that they believed in the existence of God. The court unanimously rules that a religious test violates the Establishment Clause.

    • 1962: Engel v. Vitale

    Any kind of prayer, composed by public school districts, even nondenominational prayer, is unconstitutional government sponsorship of religion.

    • 1963: Abington School District v. Schempp

    Court finds Bible reading over school intercom unconstitutional and Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203 (1963) - Court finds forcing a child to participate in Bible reading and prayer unconstitutional.

    • 1968: Epperson v. Arkansas

    State statue banning teaching of evolution is unconstitutional. A state cannot alter any element in a course of study in order to promote a religious point of view. A state's attempt to hide behind a nonreligious motivation will not be given credence unless that state can show a secular reason as the foundation for its actions.

    • 1980: Stone v. Graham

    Court finds posting of the Ten Commandments in schools unconstitutional.

    • 1985: Wallace v. Jaffree

    State's moment of silence at public school statute is unconstitutional where legislative record reveals that motivation for statute was the encouragement of prayer. Court majority silent on whether "pure" moment of silence scheme, with no bias in favor of prayer or any other mental process, would be constitutional.

    • 1987: Edwards v. Aquillard

    Unconstitutional for state to require teaching of "creation science" in all instances in which evolution is taught. Statute had a clear religious motivation.

    • 1989: Allegheny County v. ACLU

    Court finds that a nativity scene displayed inside a government building violates the Establishment Clause.

    • 1992: Lee v. Weisman

    Unconstitutional for a school district to provide any clergy to perform nondenominational prayer at elementary or secondary school graduation. It involves government sponsorship of worship. Court majority was particularly concerned about psychological coercion to which children, as opposed to adults, would be subjected, by having prayers that may violate their beliefs recited at their graduation ceremonies.
    Seems like they should continue then until they get it right.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    A step (law) towards establishment of religion is a law respecting an establishment of religion and is unconstitutional.
    Which religion are they people in this community trying to establish?

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    who is your "team"?
    Evil Conservative Industries.



    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    is this a game?
    Yes. Debatepolitics.com is a game. Nothing on this or any other web-sight is to be taken seriously, because it's just a web site and we are just anons. We don't decide law. We don't enforce it. We can't give or take anything from anyone, though you wouldn't think so given how most people speak of themselves around here. Nothing we post here will have any impact on the real world.

    Non of us are here to work. Everyone is here for whatever they personally consider entertainment.
    Last edited by Jerry; 09-29-11 at 10:39 PM.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Which religion are they people in this community trying to establish?
    I wouldn't say that they're establishing a religion, but this is definitely a law respecting a religious establishment, which is a no-go.

    IMO, send the little bastards to boot camp for a couple months. I'm willing to bet that most young adults who commit minor, non-violent crimes are lacking in much needed discipline.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    There's nothing at all wrong with that message and I would hope that all convicts seek out that message and take it to heart once they're done serving their time -- but while they're in the custody of the state, I would hope the state is not crossing the church/state line by sanctioning religion.
    They're not sanctioning religion any more than they are sanctioning recycling or cleaning highways or any other community service, They are hoping these young offenders learn something of traditional shared values. There is a great possibility that they might actually come away with some life lessons and turn away from a life of crime.

    Religion is to Leftists what kryptonite is to Superman.

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