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Thread: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

  1. #541
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    How would all the Conservatives in this thread feel if the convict was Muslim and the judge gave him the option of 1 year in jail or 1 year of being free but going to Mosque and learning about the Qur'an every Friday eve for a year?
    Indifferent, the same way I feel about it before you added a moronic hypothetical.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Indifferent, the same way I feel about it before you added a moronic hypothetical.
    moronic? how is it moronic?

    it is identical to the situation in the OP, except the convict is a Muslim.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    moronic? how is it moronic?
    You mean other than you were race baiting ALL conservatives for one, or secondly how you made a hypothetical to fit your obvious biases against conservatives, or third how it falls in line with your hate of "tea baggers" and your prior (different thread) about Herman Cain only this time you switched it up and used "Muslim". A missed opportunity on your part, you could have said "African Muslim".

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    it is identical to the situation in the OP, except the convict is a Muslim.
    See comment above.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    You mean other than you were race baiting ALL conservatives for one,...
    that's very dishonest, since I mentioned nothing about race.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post

    that's very dishonest, since I mentioned nothing about race.
    No, but you mentioned Muslim ... which is ... which is the Liberal code word ... for racism!

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    But that is how it is ruled on today and how most people see it.
    Then the issue should return to the Supreme Court.

    The Constitution is quite clear but, like the Commerce clause and Roe vs. Wade, it has been interpreted differently by judges who appear to be motivated more by their own feelings rather then what the Constitution clearly states.

    And while ignoring the intent and the letter of the Constitution might satisfy those who want changes outside the usual route designed by the originators, these fashionable trends ignoring the letter and spirit of the Constitution inevitably divides the country, just as we see happening today.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    Yes, because that's obviously a fair reading of my position from what I wrote. [/sarcasm]

    You are ignoring the fact that there are other, non-religious solutions to accomplish the same goal. You are also trying to turn a debate about legislation into some debate about the choices of individuals which assumes that the legislation is the only option. The choice isn't between AA and addiction forever, nor is it a choice between religious community service and prison. The choice here is between crafting a statute that favors religious institutions versus a statute that is secular. I don't see any logical or constitutional reason to favor the former.



    I'd rather them be in jail and doing community service.
    It's good to see the Leftists are becoming tough on crime.

    Threatening to send criminals to Church on Sundays might be sufficient for their support for the death penalty.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Seems to me this would be unconstitutional for he same reason school prayer in public schools is unconstitutional -- it's a step towards the government establishing religion.
    A step is not establishing and, besides, the Christian Church is already very well established.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It's good to see the Leftists are becoming tough on crime.

    Threatening to send criminals to Church on Sundays might be sufficient for their support for the death penalty.
    I'd take death rather than being dumbed down and lied to
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post

    Then the issue should return to the Supreme Court.
    Why? The Supreme Court has ruled on it many times already.

    • 1948: McCollum v. Board of Education Dist. 71

    Court finds religious instruction in public schools a violation of the establishment clause and therefore unconstitutional.

    • 1961: Torcaso v. Watkins

    Court holds that the state of Maryland cannot require applicants for public office to swear that they believed in the existence of God. The court unanimously rules that a religious test violates the Establishment Clause.

    • 1962: Engel v. Vitale

    Any kind of prayer, composed by public school districts, even nondenominational prayer, is unconstitutional government sponsorship of religion.

    • 1963: Abington School District v. Schempp

    Court finds Bible reading over school intercom unconstitutional and Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203 (1963) - Court finds forcing a child to participate in Bible reading and prayer unconstitutional.

    • 1968: Epperson v. Arkansas

    State statue banning teaching of evolution is unconstitutional. A state cannot alter any element in a course of study in order to promote a religious point of view. A state's attempt to hide behind a nonreligious motivation will not be given credence unless that state can show a secular reason as the foundation for its actions.

    • 1980: Stone v. Graham

    Court finds posting of the Ten Commandments in schools unconstitutional.

    • 1985: Wallace v. Jaffree

    State's moment of silence at public school statute is unconstitutional where legislative record reveals that motivation for statute was the encouragement of prayer. Court majority silent on whether "pure" moment of silence scheme, with no bias in favor of prayer or any other mental process, would be constitutional.

    • 1987: Edwards v. Aquillard

    Unconstitutional for state to require teaching of "creation science" in all instances in which evolution is taught. Statute had a clear religious motivation.

    • 1989: Allegheny County v. ACLU

    Court finds that a nativity scene displayed inside a government building violates the Establishment Clause.

    • 1992: Lee v. Weisman

    Unconstitutional for a school district to provide any clergy to perform nondenominational prayer at elementary or secondary school graduation. It involves government sponsorship of worship. Court majority was particularly concerned about psychological coercion to which children, as opposed to adults, would be subjected, by having prayers that may violate their beliefs recited at their graduation ceremonies.

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