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Thread: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

  1. #521
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    really? I have answered that at least 3 times. IF that were to be the case, all you had to do was go and sit at PP and answer questions about what happened, I doubt you'd find many, even hard core religious people, who would rather go to jail than sit at PP.


    but that was not your original arguement. you started off talking about mopping floors, etc at PP. you only "moved the goalpost" when I challenged you to tell me what equivalent benefit the church was getting from having the person sitting there.

    FWIW, I would still like an answer to that question or an admission that the answer is, in fact, "the church gets no benefit"
    But that's what I was doing. Your contention was that they weren't equal, so I refined the hypothetical until they were equal. You say yourself that you wouldn't have a problem beyond the base problem you would have with the Church option. Fair enough, but the hypothetical is aimed at more than just you. Some were saying essentially "tough beans, if atheists don't want to be sent to church then don't break the law". I was just wondering what those folk who said that would think of if instead of church it was say Planned Parenthood.
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But that's what I was doing. Your contention was that they weren't equal, so I refined the hypothetical until they were equal. You say yourself that you wouldn't have a problem beyond the base problem you would have with the Church option. Fair enough, but the hypothetical is aimed at more than just you. Some were saying essentially "tough beans, if atheists don't want to be sent to church then don't break the law". I was just wondering what those folk who said that would think of if instead of church it was say Planned Parenthood.
    and as I said, as long as all they had to do was sit and observe...don't think it would be a big deal.
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  3. #523
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    so, from the criminal's perspective, where is the problem?
    There most likely isn't one from their perspective. But the argument is whether or not this is proper form of punishment handed down by the courts to mandate religious service. Which I don't think it is. First off, it's kind of a sticky area as to whether or not government can even do it in the first place. Secondly, it's hardly punishment. While I do believe that many non-violent crimes shouldn't get jail time, I'm not advocating the removal of all punishment (not in general, there are certainly laws I would like to see not law). In that case, it seems to me that the better choice is just some fines and a bunch of community service as we actually get some amount of benefit out of community service.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    sorry, but contrary to popular belief, that was not the intent behind the anti-establishment clause. but, of course, you already knew that
    But that is how it is ruled on today and how most people see it.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    so it's better to let them remain alcoholics and drug addicts and die early from an overdose or liver failure than it is to "brainwash them into accepting a religion"?
    Yes, because that's obviously a fair reading of my position from what I wrote. [/sarcasm]

    You are ignoring the fact that there are other, non-religious solutions to accomplish the same goal. You are also trying to turn a debate about legislation into some debate about the choices of individuals which assumes that the legislation is the only option. The choice isn't between AA and addiction forever, nor is it a choice between religious community service and prison. The choice here is between crafting a statute that favors religious institutions versus a statute that is secular. I don't see any logical or constitutional reason to favor the former.



    I think this particular idea sucks. the criminals are not being productive, and the only lesson they are learning is that there are no real consequences for breaking the law.
    I'd rather them be in jail and doing community service.
    Last edited by Cameron; 09-29-11 at 06:15 PM.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    Yes, because that's obviously a fair reading of my position from what I wrote. [/sarcasm] You are ignoring the fact that there are other, non-religious solutions to accomplish the same goal. The choice isn't between AA and addiction forever. The choice is between AA and a similar but non-religious program.
    i can't think of one, can you?



    I'd rather them be in jail and doing community service.
    bring back the chain gangs and make them pick up trash on the side of the road or scrub graffitti off of bridge underpasses or something.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Seems to me this would be unconstitutional for he same reason school prayer in public schools is unconstitutional -- it's a step towards the government establishing religion.
    um... seems to me you said this once already. post #515 = post #526 either your alzheimers is kicking in or that has got to be a world record for the slowest double post in history
    Last edited by OscarB63; 09-29-11 at 06:15 PM.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    I also seem to recall some church which smoked weed as one of its "spiritual" rituals; I imagine a church like that would be a popular choice among inmates.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    i can't think of one, can you?
    It's called SOS.

    WhatisSOS - Save Our Selves - Support Group
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Moderator's Warning:
    Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?Trolling and personal insults need to stop. Thank you.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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