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Thread: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

  1. #291
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I wonder how different this thread would be if it were Mosques and not Churches...
    My arguments would be the same.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    I am not the one who is arguing that the Constitution of the United States is basically worthless.
    strawman, neither am I. only that it is irrelevant as to why this is a bad idea
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  3. #293
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    I'm still not convinced that legally it's ok. While I understand that ultimately only I can decide if I want to believe something, and thus going to church isn't a "force" of beliefs; it still doesn't seem like proper government force to demand attendance. I mean, what if they made a law that said you have to go to Church, hell it doesn't even have to be denominational, any Church except the Church of Scientology. Because I hate that one. You have to go to A church at least once a week or pay a fine. There's choice, right? And while they may be forcing one to go to a church, they're not forcing them to believe; right? So there's no belief force. Is it ok? I'd still say no. This one is a bit more clear than the court case since it would actually be congress making a law. But I think the sentiment is similar. It's at best very iffy. I'd rather we not allow Church as Punishment, just avoid that area all together, and use fines and general community service. We get more use out of community service than some jerk sitting in Church once a week.
    I see where you're coming from, but most definitely would be a violation of EC, especially since you could claim atheism and be excused.

    I'd rather we use general community service and fines as well, but if a judge wants to make this innocuous attempt, I say go for it. I consider it more as an experiment than anything. I see all these hardened criminals claim to turn their lives around because "they found God". I'd support it just as a guise of scientific research to satiate my curiosities.

    It would be fun to know the success rate...****s and giggles and all.

  4. #294
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The whole "go to Church" thing, it's too gray an area I think. Because there would need to be a secular option, there would need to be other religious options. Instead, the judge could have said "X amount of community service". But I do not think it proper use of government force, even in sentencing of criminals, to demand religious attendance.
    How is it a "gray area"?

    And there are "secular options", though I can only guess what that means. That would be doing regular community service projects where religion is highly unlikely to be mentioned.. They are not "demanding religious attendance". It is an option.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    anyone in this thread who cares more about a criminal's "freedom of religion" than they do about the fact that criminals will basically be going unpunished
    What do Constitutional rights have to do with criminals in jail? Criminals in jail are denied many Constitutional rights.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    strawman, neither am I. only that it is irrelevant as to why this is a bad idea
    most people in this country believe that violating the Constitution of the United States, is a bad idea.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    What do Constitutional rights have to do with criminals in jail?.
    don't ask me. ask all your liberal pals who keep squealing about it.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    most people in this country believe that violating the Constitution of the United States, is a bad idea.
    still don't get it do you?


    this thing is a bad idea, doesn't matter that it is also unconstitutional. it is a bad idea at the core.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    still don't get it do you?

    this thing is a bad idea, doesn't matter that it is also unconstitutional. it is a bad idea at the core.
    again, the fact that it violates our Constitution is a BIG DEAL for me. obviously not for you.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    most people in this country believe that violating the Constitution of the United States, is a bad idea.
    There are many constitutional rights stripped away from those in jail. Why is the religion clause any different?

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