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Thread: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    And church is still not a better option than community service, which will serve the entire community instead of having someone listening to a sermon
    too bad that is not the issue.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    too bad that is not the issue.
    Yes we know, the issue is about an activist judge wanting to cram Jesus down people's throats and letting criminals get away with too light a sentence.

    But hey, you are all about cramming religion down people's throats. So enjoy!

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    [QUOTE=roguenuke;1059831936]

    Not that this is much of a surprise to me. I figured it wasn't going to be that easy for people to just show up and blow it off. This definitely makes it more like an indoctrination program, since a person is going to be expected to learn the religion for a year, whether they agree with it or not.
    I'm not certain that they need agree with the teachings or not. The idea seems to be that other ideas should be introduced into the young criminals mind, the sort of teachings and beliefs which underpin the foundations of the United States and other democracies. It would be interesting to see a study on whether young people attending Church regularly committed more crimes than those who didn't
    Even offering other alternatives such as community service still does not change the issue that those who already attend church regularly are going to be getting away with a crime as if it didn't happen, since such a "punishment" really wouldn't change their lives at all except maybe adding a test into it every so often, which they most likely have the answers for anyway.
    Perhaps those attending Church on a regular basis would have to find alternative punishment. This is not a major stumbling block.

    And deciding to go through with this program will cost them money in court battles because I guarantee that someone, most likely the ACLU, will challenge this program.
    The ACLU is already involved and their argument is "Even if the city offers other sentencing alternatives that are comparable to Operation ROC, which is far from clear, the First Amendment still prohibits the government from becoming entangled in core religious exercise, which includes attending church,"

    When they cannot find a specific mention in the Constitution they tend to just make it up, as they did here.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke
    Not that this is much of a surprise to me. I figured it wasn't going to be that easy for people to just show up and blow it off. This definitely makes it more like an indoctrination program, since a person is going to be expected to learn the religion for a year, whether they agree with it or not.

    Even offering other alternatives such as community service still does not change the issue that those who already attend church regularly are going to be getting away with a crime as if it didn't happen, since such a "punishment" really wouldn't change their lives at all except maybe adding a test into it every so often, which they most likely have the answers for anyway.

    And deciding to go through with this program will cost them money in court battles because I guarantee that someone, most likely the ACLU, will challenge this program.
    Awesome, thanks. Now the next time U of M's alumni association calls/writes me and panders for donations, I'll tell them no because they tried to indoctrinate me by forcing me to take tests.

  5. #255
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    strawman? when have I said they shouldn't. I'm just saying that FOR THE CRIMINAL, it is a better option to go to church than to go to jail and get butt****ed by big bubba.

    I'd much rather have someone violate my freedom of religion than to violate my rectum
    So would most people, still doesn't make it right or Constitutional.

    It is wrong for two major reasons. One, there is absolutely no way that this town got enough religious places/churches involved to cover every possible religious beliefs a person might hold, which means someone would have to be compromising their religious ideals in order to get the "lesser" punishment. And two (the bigger issue in my opinion), some people are basically going to get off almost scott-free for their crime just because they already are a regular member of one of the churches involved in this program.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Yes we know, the issue is about an activist judge wanting to cram Jesus down people's throats and letting criminals get away with too light a sentence.

    But hey, you are all about cramming religion down people's throats. So enjoy!
    strawman much? I just don't see what the big deal is. all you religion haters are squealing about "freedom of religion" and how unconstitutional it is. you really don't give ****all about the fact that the concept is BS because it lets criminals off easy. you are just pissing yourselves with glee over a chance to bash religion.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    So would most people, still doesn't make it right or Constitutional.

    It is wrong for two major reasons. One, there is absolutely no way that this town got enough religious places/churches involved to cover every possible religious beliefs a person might hold, which means someone would have to be compromising their religious ideals in order to get the "lesser" punishment. And two (the bigger issue in my opinion), some people are basically going to get off almost scott-free for their crime just because they already are a regular member of one of the churches involved in this program.

    wrongo. it is wrong for ONE major reason. religious or not, it lets criminals off without any significant punishment. everything else is just smoke and mirrors
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Awesome, thanks. Now the next time U of M's alumni association calls/writes me and panders for donations, I'll tell them no because they tried to indoctrinate me by forcing me to take tests.
    Were you required to attend U of M because of some punishment? Was the alternative to attending U of M time in jail? Did U of M's program/teaching come into conflict with your beliefs but you were unable to express that openly for fear of being told that you were being difficult/uncooperative and would have to take the alternative of jail?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    wrongo. it is wrong for ONE major reason. religious or not, it lets criminals off without any significant punishment. everything else is just smoke and mirrors
    Constitutionally, it is wrong because of the first reason. This has been ruled on several times in the past in various cases. It is obvious to pretty much anyone who isn't blinded by the belief that required religion is always a good thing.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    strawman much? I just don't see what the big deal is. all you religion haters are squealing about "freedom of religion" and how unconstitutional it is. you really don't give ****all about the fact that the concept is BS because it lets criminals off easy. you are just pissing yourselves with glee over a chance to bash religion.
    So you think listening to a sermon for 4 hours a week and then answering some questions isn't too light on crime?

    What a message you want to send," commit a crime, go to church.". Are you actually reading what you are typing?

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