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Thread: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

  1. #181
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    why do you hate religion so?
    I don't hate religion. I hate people trying to force their religious beliefs on others. Hell, I feel the same way about atheist who insist that people who believe in God are stupid/ignorant/insane/etc.

    I have plenty of family members who are very religious who I love dearly and strongly admire their devotion to the religion. They also do not try to force their beliefs on others. They expect people to be good to each other, that is basically it. They may not do some things due to their religious beliefs against those things, and other things due to their beliefs about those things, but they don't expect anyone else to believe/do those things unless they want to. I have my own set of religious beliefs that I may share with people when they ask about them, especially if they want details, but I don't find it necessary to actually try to convert others to my beliefs about a higher power and/or an afterlife. That is just silly.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #182
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    true, but no one is being forced to worship in any ceremonies. they are just forced (and even that is a stretch since they do have a choice) to be there. they can sleep, read a book, play their PSP, listen to a radio with earphones (a favorite of my dad BTW, when he was not sleeping) or any of a thousand other activities. OMG...a jew could even read from the Torah or a muslim could read from the Quran.

    it really isn't that hard to understand.
    You honestly think this would be acceptable for the church for a person to do those things you mentioned and still be able to claim "I attended church this week"? I don't. I almost guarantee that there are rules for the person to actually have to follow the rules of whatever church they are in as long as they are in that church.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #183
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I don't hate religion. I hate people trying to force their religious beliefs on others. Hell, I feel the same way about atheist who insist that people who believe in God are stupid/ignorant/insane/etc.
    so again I must ask. how is it forcing any religious beliefs on a person by giving them the choice of sitting in a building? you would have a legitimate point IF, repeat IF, part of the sentence was that the criminal actually participate in the service. however, this is not the case.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You honestly think this would be acceptable for the church for a person to do those things you mentioned and still be able to claim "I attended church this week"? I don't. I almost guarantee that there are rules for the person to actually have to follow the rules of whatever church they are in as long as they are in that church.
    I honestly think that the church probably wouldn't really care, as long as you didn't disturb those around you or try to disrupt the service.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  5. #185
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    so again I must ask. how is it forcing any religious beliefs on a person by giving them the choice of sitting in a building? you would have a legitimate point IF, repeat IF, part of the sentence was that the criminal actually participate in the service. however, this is not the case.
    How do you know what level of participation is expected of the person facing this punishment? I believe it is ignorant to believe that a judge would allow the person to do whatever they want in their mandatory church service.

    Not only that, they would still be potentially subjected to ridicule and/or public humiliation just for their difference in beliefs. You may not have seen such things, but I have. Plus, we are talking about a difference in people who are voluntarily attending church, so they most likely agree with at least some of the beliefs of that church, and those who are being forced to attend, no matter what their beliefs are.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #186
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    I honestly think that the church probably wouldn't really care, as long as you didn't disturb those around you or try to disrupt the service.
    But you don't know this. And it wouldn't necessarily be up to the church, as a whole, but what agreement was made between the church and the judge regarding this situation.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #187
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    true, but no one is being forced to worship in any ceremonies. they are just forced (and even that is a stretch since they do have a choice) to be there. they can sleep, read a book, play their PSP, listen to a radio with earphones (a favorite of my dad BTW, when he was not sleeping) or any of a thousand other activities. OMG...a jew could even read from the Torah or a muslim could read from the Quran.

    it really isn't that hard to understand.
    What isn't difficult to understand is the fact that you are being obtuse. Forcing someone to attend religious observations and ceremonies not of their religion of choice is clearly against the law. What's worse is that the judge - by his words - excludes some religions.

    If, as a Buddhist, I choose to meditate during Christian church services may I meditate? May I chant? Is sitting on the floor on a zafu permissible? Is walking meditation permissible? I think not. In fact we all know that before one single Christian church service would be completed I'd be labeled as disruptive. The police and the judge would be called.

    I could probably attend in sweat pants or loose fitting clothing that is comfortable when meditating, but that would be distracting and possibly disrespectful in a Christian church.

    Now I cannot imagine any Buddhist ever doing any of the above in a Christian church, but then while attending a Christian church I'd be denied the Constitutional right to practice my own religion.
    Last edited by Risky Thicket; 09-27-11 at 02:47 PM.










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    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    I'm not reading all these pages and I'm late for service it would seem.

    This won't hold up because of the options. If they were gave a list of many options, even if one included church it would be different. I'm one who would argue that church may very well do the person good but still the government can't say "go to church or go to jail".

    It would be no different than jail or community service and your only option is Planned Parenthood.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    What isn't difficult to understand is the fact that you are being obtuse. Forcing someone to attend religious observations and ceremonies not of their religion of choice is clearly against the law.
    Making someone register on a public hate-list for a crime he committed 30 years ago as a teen is clearly unconstitutional too, but don't see anyone standing up for the rights of the person in this case. Why the selective enforcement of the constitution?
    Last edited by dontworrybehappy; 09-27-11 at 02:55 PM.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    Making someone register on a public hate-list for a crime he committed 30 years ago as a teen is clearly unconstitutional too, but don't see anyone standing up for the rights of the person in this case.
    I'm sorry, but that is not relevant.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



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