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Thread: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

  1. #171
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by DashingAmerican View Post
    The bottom line is that this is an attempt to control cost and keep people who have committed misdemeanors from turning to hard crime by allowing them the choice to go to a religious service.

    That being said, it's a stupid program because ,as it has been pointed out, almost everyone will choose church over jail. Just throw their ass in jail and leave it at that.
    And so Jefferson County is paying for convicted drug/alcohol abusers to go to rehab rather than jail? Rehab has proven to be more effective and less expensive. Is Jefferson County and/or the judge referring to rehab rather than jail in an effort to save money?










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  2. #172
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Say...you should make that suggestion as a member of their community! You could even offer to sponsor some of the folks...maybe do some volunteer work with them or even head up the program where they do that community service. Perhaps they havent seen that as an option yet. Choices ROCK!

    Nah...you dont really CARE enough for all that...you just enjoy the opportunity to bitch about something that has no relevant bearing on your life, regardless of how beneficial it may actually BE for others...because it involves religion.
    It could be quite detrimental, unfairly, to some just due to their own established religious views or lack of religious beliefs. Church is not for everyone and the state has no right to mandate it to anyone, whether the person committed a crime or not. It isn't like just attending church in and of itself will actually help the person on a better path.

    Community service is a much better way to get people who commit crimes to actually contribute to their communities. And community service is already an established alternative punishment option that in no way violates the Constitution. I highly doubt this community is ignorant of community service as alternative punishment. I don't doubt that at least some of them are ignorant of the Constitution.

    This is about adhering to the Constitution.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #173
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You have a secular choice...stay in jail and pay your fine. Choices ROCK!
    If one of the choices violates your freedom of religion, it is not a true choice. If one of the choices discriminates against you based on your religion/beliefs when compared to a person in a similar situation, the choice is unconstitutional. The only Constitutional way to make this choice legal is to ensure that a secular alternative is an option. Something that does not require religious attendance but is equal in "punishment" to the attending church option.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #174
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    If one of the choices violates your freedom of religion, it is not a true choice. If one of the choices discriminates against you based on your religion/beliefs when compared to a person in a similar situation, the choice is unconstitutional. The only Constitutional way to make this choice legal is to ensure that a secular alternative is an option. Something that does not require religious attendance but is equal in "punishment" to the attending church option.
    how does giving you the choice to go sit inside a church building violate your freedom of religion?

    you guys keep ignoring the fact that no one is being forced to participate in worship, no one is being forced to pay attention to the pastor, no one is being forced to even stay awake during the service.

    the option is "attend church"

    my mother forced my father to "attend church" for over 30 years. I don't think he ever heard a single sermon from start to finish.
    Last edited by OscarB63; 09-27-11 at 02:24 PM.
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  5. #175
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    how does giving you the choice to go sit inside a church building violate your freedom of religion?

    you guys keep ignoring the fact that no one is being forced to participate in worship, no one is being forced to pay attention to the pastor, no one is being forced to even stay awake during the service.
    If this was even close to relevant to how the law views a violation of freedom of religion, then laws mandating church attendance for all would still be legal/Constitutional. Guess what, they're not.

    And I provided court cases where it was shown where simply forcing attendance of AA meetings where God is only used in a very broad context is a violation of the Establishment Clause.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #176
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    how does giving you the choice to go sit inside a church building violate your freedom of religion?

    you guys keep ignoring the fact that no one is being forced to participate in worship, no one is being forced to pay attention to the pastor, no one is being forced to even stay awake during the service.
    It harms if a non-Christian is forced to sit in a "church building" and "worship" in ceremonies conducted by a "pastor". How many times do we have to tell you that? It IS what the judge said. It is discriminatory if a criminal happens to be of another religion. Doing something other than what the judge stated could result in contempt of court charges. Meeting in a house on Saturday with 3 other people to meditate is not "worshipping" in a "church building" on "Sunday".










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  7. #177
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    If this was even close to relevant to how the law views a violation of freedom of religion, then laws mandating church attendance for all would still be legal/Constitutional. Guess what, they're not.

    And I provided court cases where it was shown where simply forcing attendance of AA meetings where God is only used in a very broad context is a violation of the Establishment Clause.
    why do you hate religion so?
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  8. #178
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    If this was even close to relevant to how the law views a violation of freedom of religion, then laws mandating church attendance for all would still be legal/Constitutional. Guess what, they're not.

    And I provided court cases where it was shown where simply forcing attendance of AA meetings where God is only used in a very broad context is a violation of the Establishment Clause.
    I'm guessing this wasn't appealed much. I challenge any court system who comes to this verdict and would probably accuse them of judicial activism.

  9. #179
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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    It harms if a non-Christian is forced to sit in a "church building" and "worship" in ceremonies conducted by a "pastor". How many times do we have to tell you that? It IS what the judge said. It is discriminatory if a criminal happens to be of another religion. Doing something other than what the judge stated could result in contempt of court charges. Meeting in a house on Saturday with 3 other people to meditate is not "worshipping" in a "church building" on "Sunday".
    true, but no one is being forced to worship in any ceremonies. they are just forced (and even that is a stretch since they do have a choice) to be there. they can sleep, read a book, play their PSP, listen to a radio with earphones (a favorite of my dad BTW, when he was not sleeping) or any of a thousand other activities. OMG...a jew could even read from the Torah or a muslim could read from the Quran.

    it really isn't that hard to understand.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    why do you hate religion so?
    what does this have to do with the thread?

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