• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Serve Time In Jail...Or In Church?

Wake said:
Interesting.

What of a parallel governing system like Sharia Law ever happening in America?

Do you or do you not think that would be constituional to respect a parallel, religious form of government such as Sharia Law?
Click to expand...

This...

...is important.

If we don't give prisoners the option of going to church... then surely America would never allow anything remotely close to a parallel, religious government like Sharia Law?
 
Grant said:
Where is one religion being preferenced over another? Does this only apply to Christians and not Jews, Muslims, etc? I read nothing like that, though it is a question that could be raised to the local courts.

But no one has said that.

I suspect that's because there are few delinquent Taoists, Shintos or Hindus in the community.
Click to expand...

At least one of those articles about this case point out that there are no temples or mosques in the area, so there is no way that any Muslims or Jews who happened to get this "option" would be able to actually go to a place of worship that matched their beliefs. Plus, there is no church that matches my personal religious beliefs and that is certainly true for all atheists. This means that at least someone could be subjected to having to go to a place of worship that is against their beliefs.
Click to expand...
 
roguenuke said:
Don't forget Jediism, Wicca, Pastafarianism, and Odinism, plus any of millions of personal beliefs that individuals might hold that stray away from an established religion just enough or more so that they don't fit in and would likely be persecuted or berated or called out in any of those "approved" churches for expressing those beliefs.
Click to expand...

Perhaps these religions, and the others mentioned, are now underrepresented in Bay Minette, Alabama, a town of less than 8,000 people.

Maybe when more delinquent Rastafarians and Odinists move into the area the program can be expanded.
 
roguenuke said:
At least one of those articles about this case point out that there are no temples or mosques in the area, so there is no way that any Muslims or Jews who happened to get this "option" would be able to actually go to a place of worship that matched their beliefs. Plus, there is no church that matches my personal religious beliefs and that is certainly true for all atheists. This means that at least someone could be subjected to having to go to a place of worship that is against their beliefs.
Click to expand...

Or they could opt out of the program. There are choices involved here.
 
Grant said:
Perhaps these religions, and the others mentioned, are now underrepresented in Bay Minette, Alabama, a town of less than 8,000 people.

Maybe when more delinquent Rastafarians and Odinists move into the area the program can be expanded.
Click to expand...

You and I both know that if the judge ordered the convict to go to a Muslim prayer-service every Friday evening at a local Mosque or go to jail for a year, the Conservatives in this country would be yelling "SHARIA LAW!!!!! SHARIA LAW!!!"
 
Grant said:
Perhaps these religions, and the others mentioned, are now underrepresented in Bay Minette, Alabama, a town of less than 8,000 people.

Maybe when more delinquent Rastafarians and Odinists move into the area the program can be expanded.
Click to expand...

Or they can drop this unconstitutional punishment option and stick to other, secular programs already shown to work without any question about their constitutionality.
 
Grant said:
Or they could opt out of the program. There are choices involved here.
Click to expand...

They are not equivalent choices for equivalent circumstances, which is where violating the 14th Amendment comes in.
 
Does the convict have the choice of which religious service he can go to? Can he find a synagogue or a Mosque to go to instead of a church? can he go to a buddhist temple instead?

apparently not. The judge is clear: it MUST be a Church and it MUST be on Sunday.

seems like he is recognizing an establishment of religion....a Christian one.
 
Grant said:
Or they could opt out of the program. There are choices involved here.
Click to expand...

It seemed like the options were "go to jail or go to Church on Sundays". Not much of a choice. I mean, sure if you're Christian it's a no brainer. But other religions don't really have the same option.
 
Wake said:
This...

...is important.

If we don't give prisoners the option of going to church... then surely America would never allow anything remotely close to a parallel, religious government like Sharia Law?
Click to expand...

It's amazing of how frightened other people living far from this small community feel their nation is at risk because young felons have the option of going to Church on Sunday to serve their punishment.

When people are confronted with great problems their minds tend to focus on the trivial. It's a form of escapism.
 
Grant said:
It's amazing of how frightened other people living far from this small community feel their nation is at risk because young felons have the option of going to Church on Sunday to serve their punishment....
Click to expand...

its amazing how folks who live in small communities can stray soo far from understanding the Constitution of the USA.
 
Ikari said:
It seemed like the options were "go to jail or go to Church on Sundays". Not much of a choice. I mean, sure if you're Christian it's a no brainer. But other religions don't really have the same option.
Click to expand...

What other religions in Bay Minette are being denied that option?
 
Ikari said:
It seemed like the options were "go to jail or go to Church on Sundays". Not much of a choice. I mean, sure if you're Christian it's a no brainer. But other religions don't really have the same option.
Click to expand...

exactly. what if I'm a Muslim & don't want to go to your church on Sunday, but instead want to go to my mosque on Friday?
 
Thunder said:
its amazing how folks who live in small communities can stray soo far from understanding the Constitution of the USA.
Click to expand...

And its amazing how vast bureaucracies in Washington can stray so far from the people who make up small town America.
 
Grant said:
What other religions in Bay Minette are being denied that option?
Click to expand...

Any religion which doesn't practice on Sunday or have places of worship in the area.
 
Thunder said:
exactly. what if I'm a Muslim & don't want to go to your church on Sunday, but instead want to go to my mosque on Friday?
Click to expand...

Have there been delinquent Muslims in Miinette Bay who have been denied this option or is this another straw man?
 
roguenuke said:
Or they can drop this unconstitutional punishment option and stick to other, secular programs already shown to work without any question about their constitutionality.
Click to expand...

I have to say that I would agree with you if the usual punishment worked to punish, or teach a lesson, but it doesn't work.

I'm not saying that giving a criminal a choice between jail or Religion is the cure for the problem, but liberals have made prison less punishment and more like staying in a really cheap motel next to a greasy spoon restaurant.
 
Ikari said:
Any religion which doesn't practice on Sunday or have places of worship in the area.
Click to expand...

Do you have a record of how many delinquents of another religion in Minette Bay have been denied their options?
 
Grant said:
And its amazing how vast bureaucracies in Washington can stray so far from the people who make up small town America.
Click to expand...

The small town communities/governments of Bumpoke Alabama should have no more right to force religion onto people than Washington DC. It has nothing to do with where it is happening or how big the government is and everything to do with the right of a person to not be forced to participate in religious practices of any kind that they don't want to and to be given equivalent punishment sentences regardless of their religious beliefs.
 
Thunder said:
exactly. what if I'm a Muslim & don't want to go to your church on Sunday, but instead want to go to my mosque on Friday?
Click to expand...

Gee, that's really complicated. I guess they'll never come up with an answer to that one.
 
Councilman said:
I have to say that I would agree with you if the usual punishment worked to punish, or teach a lesson, but it doesn't work.

I'm not saying that giving a criminal a choice between jail or Religion is the cure for the problem, but liberals have made prison less punishment and more like staying in a really cheap motel next to a greasy spoon restaurant.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about sending them to prison. Community service and rehab programs are much better options for alternative punishments.
 
Grant said:
Do you have a record of how many delinquents of another religion in Minette Bay have been denied their options?
Click to expand...

Do you have record of how many delinquents of another religion in Minette Bay have been denied their option from the government? Burden of proof is always on the government. Are there even enough churches in the area to allow it? Are there synagogues and mosques? What about atheists?
 
roguenuke said:
The small town communities/governments of Bumpoke Alabama should have no more right to force religion onto people than Washington DC.
Click to expand...

It's actually Bay Minette, Alabama. Don't get your hopes up.
It has nothing to do with where it is happening or how big the government is and everything to do with the right of a person to not be forced to participate in religious practices of any kind that they don't want to and to be given equivalent punishment sentences regardless of their religious beliefs.
Click to expand...

Apparently you haven't read the part where no one is being forced. It is an option. that's all.
 
Grant said:
Gee, that's really complicated. I guess they'll never come up with an answer to that one.
Click to expand...

Come up with a solution to accommodating my religion since, afaik, there is no established religion that meets to discuss my personal religious beliefs at all, since there is no need for one. My religious beliefs do not require that others need to know about them for a better afterlife. It would be stupid to spend any money to establish a place to talk about such beliefs when a person's home would be quite fine for doing so, an informal kinda thing. And I highly doubt the judge would go for hour long meetings in my home every week to discuss these things with my family.
 
Ikari said:
Do you have record of how many delinquents of another religion in Minette Bay have been denied their option from the government? Burden of proof is always on the government. Are there even enough churches in the area to allow it? Are there synagogues and mosques? What about atheists?
Click to expand...

Why not Wiki for the information?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom