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Thread: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements

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    Re: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Its ok, your rant about teachers unions had no relation to the post of his you quoted and most certainly did not answer his question.
    what question? and could you chill with the cats. that stuff creeps me out. The thought of thousands of cats crammed in the box gives me the willies



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    Re: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what question? and could you chill with the cats. that stuff creeps me out. The thought of thousands of cats crammed in the box gives me the willies
    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    i have a question, though. if we remove collective bargaining, cut salaries to $30k a year, cut benefits, and remove job security from teaching positions, will enough conservatives step up and fill those jobs?
    Your response was that you did not like unions, which does not address this question. So, will gutting education help education?

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    Re: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Your response was that you did not like unions, which does not address this question.
    His question was not relevant since it assumes facts not in evidence.



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    Re: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements

    Schools need to be able to compete for quality. Support vouchers. Schools can be run on some of the same economic principals as businesses. Why shouldn't I be able to spend the money meant for my kid's education on the school of my choice? Why shouldn't schools be able to pay teachers more because of demand for good teachers? Quality teachers should be revered. Crummy teachers should be forced to improve or be fired (just like any occupation). The Teachers Union doesn't help teachers or students. And, if teachers are just teaching kids how to pass tests because of NCLB, whose fault is that? It's the teacher's fault and the school's fault. We all had teachers that would essentially tell us what the answers were going to be on tests - way before NCLB. They just taught the test material. If we agree on the material, what difference does it make? If all a teacher does is go over and over the same material because that's what's going to be on the test, it's not the test's fault. A test is a valid measurement of learning (no, not the sole measurement).
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

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    Re: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    His question was not relevant since it assumes facts not in evidence.
    \\

    So there haven't been lots of threads here proposing we do this very thing?

    Could have surprised me.

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    Re: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    \\

    So there haven't been lots of threads here proposing we do this very thing?

    Could have surprised me.
    He assumes it will drive down wages. In reality it might lead to higher wages for GOOD teachers and lower wages for INCOMPETENT teachers rather than wages based on UNION seniority

    SYL off to the range for some shooting



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    Re: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    Schools need to be able to compete for quality. Support vouchers. Schools can be run on some of the same economic principals as businesses. Why shouldn't I be able to spend the money meant for my kid's education on the school of my choice? Why shouldn't schools be able to pay teachers more because of demand for good teachers? Quality teachers should be revered. Crummy teachers should be forced to improve or be fired (just like any occupation). The Teachers Union doesn't help teachers or students. And, if teachers are just teaching kids how to pass tests because of NCLB, whose fault is that? It's the teacher's fault and the school's fault. We all had teachers that would essentially tell us what the answers were going to be on tests - way before NCLB. They just taught the test material. If we agree on the material, what difference does it make? If all a teacher does is go over and over the same material because that's what's going to be on the test, it's not the test's fault. A test is a valid measurement of learning (no, not the sole measurement).
    There is an old quote that has much truth to it.

    What gets measured gets done. If you set a standard people will find a way to conform to it, this why a manager has to be careful in what he or she asks for.

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    Re: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Its ok, your rant about teachers unions had no relation to the post of his you quoted and most certainly did not answer his question.
    or the thread at large. this thread is about No Child Left Behind, not anti-Union rants.

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    Re: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    More obfuscation

    when we are talking about education and the NEA is brought up its pretty obvious

    it would be akin to a discussion on gun laws and thunder claiming the NRA means the National Recovery Act under FDR
    He... said... National Endowment for the Arts. Like, he actually spelled it out.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements

    I agree with most of you, in that NCLB had good intentions, but the policy was written by people who, for the most part, attended private/prep schools or public schools during the 50's and 60's when the US was still "on top." For the most part, these policy-makers have no real concept of what teaching in a public school is like in the 21st century. This is the underlying reason why this policy was doomed to fail from the "get go". NCLB has done nothing more than force most public schools to teach test-taking skills.....which is great if these kids plan on working on a career in psychometry or if the future job market for professional test-takers begins to take an up-swing.

    This is my 18th year as a public school teacher, and I must say, that my job has become almost "robotic" in nature. The US Dept of Educ, state, and local school districts have brought in "experts" to create pacing guides, take test-writing capabilities away from the classroom teachers, and provide scripted lesson plans and reviews which we're required to follow if we want to keep our jobs. Also, accountability now falls squarely on the shulders of the teacher, even though we're not allowed to actually "teach" the material the way WE KNOW our students will learn it best. Frustrating. So, in summary, yes, NCLB needs to die......quickly. I rarely give Obama an "attaboy", but in this case I must. The only thing that would make me happier than to see NCLB die, would be to see the complete abolishment of the US Dept. of Education. Boy, wouldn't that be a radical change for the better!
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

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