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Thread: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements

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    Re: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    More obfuscation

    when we are talking about education and the NEA is brought up its pretty obvious

    it would be akin to a discussion on gun laws and thunder claiming the NRA means the National Recovery Act under FDR
    I think about the National Endowments for the Arts first usually. But then again I went to art school.

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    Re: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    I think about the National Endowments for the Arts first usually. But then again I went to art school.
    of course you would. they are a much more widely known organization, due to their controversial status.

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    Re: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    No. Just because one type of educational reform does not work on the national level does not mean we should not get rid of the Department of Education. Rather, it means the Department of Education needs to institute policies that are capable of working on the national level.

    Personally, I'd rather the ED be used to help coordinate administration policies across the states and to help coordinate education policies across multiple states.
    I understand your position but tend to disagree. The Department of Education has been around long enough to do what you suggest yet has not for whatever reason. In this case, IMO, the states would be far better off without the Federal level coming up with new and inventive ways to make matters worse.

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    Re: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    I thought he was talking about the NEA......aka National Endowment for the Arts. A favorite target of conservatives and other extremists.
    whenever there is any discussion about education, there is always some sloganeer blaming the whole thing on unions within the first five posts.

    i have a question, though. if we remove collective bargaining, cut salaries to $30k a year, cut benefits, and remove job security from teaching positions, will enough conservatives step up and fill those jobs?

    education can't be run like a business. a business can discontinue an underperforming product. a school cannot. and giving performance bonuses to teachers instead of salary will encourage the best teachers to avoid the students who need the most help.

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    Re: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    whenever there is any discussion about education, there is always some sloganeer blaming the whole thing on unions within the first five posts.

    i have a question, though. if we remove collective bargaining, cut salaries to $30k a year, cut benefits, and remove job security from teaching positions, will enough conservatives step up and fill those jobs?

    education can't be run like a business. a business can discontinue an underperforming product. a school cannot. and giving performance bonuses to teachers instead of salary will encourage the best teachers to avoid the students who need the most help.
    public sector unions are scourge. why? because they are not engaged in arms length bargaining. Unlike private sector unions who almost never have a major say in management's representatives, the public sector unions have often funded the election of those who allegedly represent the "public" and thus the taxpayers, negotiators often owe their positions to the unions. meaning the "deals" we tax payers get are not usually the best possible especially in democratic party dominated areas

    secondly, a private sector union can only push so far or the private business closes or relocates. Not so with public schools.



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    Re: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements


    naturally. those Teachers Unions Donations don't come free.

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    Re: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    public sector unions are scourge. why? because they are not engaged in arms length bargaining. Unlike private sector unions who almost never have a major say in management's representatives, the public sector unions have often funded the election of those who allegedly represent the "public" and thus the taxpayers, negotiators often owe their positions to the unions. meaning the "deals" we tax payers get are not usually the best possible especially in democratic party dominated areas

    secondly, a private sector union can only push so far or the private business closes or relocates. Not so with public schools.
    my parents were both teachers, and dedicated their lives to education. i support having wages and benefits that attract the best people.

    teachers are hardly making out like bandits. my parents never got to "clock out" at the end of the day. the work continued until they went to bed most nights, and weekends were spent grading and preparing. they worked their asses off, as do most good teachers. and even with the union, the wages were not competitive with what they could have made in the private sector in the 80s and 90s. the wages became competitive only after decades of outsourcing collapsed the economy. they kept teaching because they believed in it and loved the kids. my entire area is better because of their hard work.

    the Republican solution in my state has been to cut funding to schools by more than $300 million, close schools, fire teachers, gut collective bargaining, and to promote policies which will lead to teaching to the test. it has been a continuous assault on public education, basically.

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    Re: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    naturally. those Teachers Unions Donations don't come free.
    Its a bad law, no matter what perspective you can find to make them look bad for doing the right thing. But then again, this is how talking points work. Don't look at the substance of the issue, find a way to link it to partisanship. Good job Cpwill.

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    Re: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    my parents were both teachers, and dedicated their lives to education. i support having wages and benefits that attract the best people.

    teachers are hardly making out like bandits. my parents never got to "clock out" at the end of the day. the work continued until they went to bed most nights, and weekends were spent grading and preparing. they worked their asses off, as do most good teachers. and even with the union, the wages were not competitive with what they could have made in the private sector in the 80s and 90s. the wages became competitive only after decades of outsourcing collapsed the economy. they kept teaching because they believed in it and loved the kids. my entire area is better because of their hard work.

    the Republican solution in my state has been to cut funding to schools by more than $300 million, close schools, fire teachers, gut collective bargaining, and to promote policies which will lead to teaching to the test. it has been a continuous assault on public education, basically.
    that has no relevance to what I said. I once represented a school board and I know full well what I am speaking of. One of my favorite myths is that knocking down the power of the public sector unions is an "assault" on public education. Rather its an attack on overpriced teachers.



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    Re: Obama allowing states to opt out of education reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that has no relevance to what I said. I once represented a school board and I know full well what I am speaking of. One of my favorite myths is that knocking down the power of the public sector unions is an "assault" on public education. Rather its an attack on overpriced teachers.
    Its ok, your rant about teachers unions had no relation to the post of his you quoted and most certainly did not answer his question.

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