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Pakistan spy agency accused of directing attacks against US targets

So if Mexico decides to bomb on a home in a south Texas neighborhood because they believe the leader of a murderous drug cartel is the house and - whoops - also blows up the houses on each side killing US citizens, you are going to be fine with it?

I would expect the U.S. to actually WORK together with the Mexicans to get the job done rather than provide assistance and refuge for the drug cartel. Is it too much to actually expect the Pakistani government to provide support and assistance to knock out a terrorist organization receiving refuge in its borders?
 

It is, in fact, accurate. The ISI has been playing for the other team for some time - it is exceedingly probable that they were responsible for OBL's hidey hole that we found him in, and their case officers have been used to provide tactical and operational C2 for Taliban ops.


HOWEVER


they're a nuclear country. and if we don't prop up the current government, there's a real possibility that the radicals will get ahold of those nukes (unless we and the Israelis are willing to preemptively launch a massive aerial and missile assault to destroy the facilities).


:) so, take your pick. either we're f****d, or we're F****D.
 
It's likely that the ISI intentionally provided support for the terrorist groups, instead of some loopholes. Create a terror, an enemy, and then voila, you have aid from the US. Typical terror manipulation. The only thing different is that the ISI either did it horribly, or the US is really bothered by that and decided to do something about that.
 
I'm not surprised. Come on now, no "Ally" harbors his friends enemies. The sadder part is that the CIA thinks we (USA) are good with Pakistan. Apparently we are so arrogant that we can't tell our friends from out enemies, or that we would even care.
 
I'm not surprised. Come on now, no "Ally" harbors his friends enemies. The sadder part is that the CIA thinks we (USA) are good with Pakistan. Apparently we are so arrogant that we can't tell our friends from out enemies, or that we would even care.

Despite what you think, the intelligence community aren't dumb as you portray them.
Many people always accuse the intelligence community of being incompetent, stupid, and making too much errors, as if they can do a better job. If the intelligence community failed, then the US would have collapsed by now.
The people working for intelligence know what they're doing, they have years of experience, they know more than what the idiotic media can show, which is only a fraction of what happens
 
From MSNBC:



U.S.: Pakistan ISI directed Kabul embassy attack - World news - South and Central Asia - Pakistan - msnbc.com

If this is, in fact, accurate, then the U.S. should immediately cut off all financial, military, and technical aid to Pakistan unless those responsible are removed from Pakistan's government and all government-related entities. There needs to be concrete and credible evidence to justify such a drastic measure. Congress should immediately request that the evidence on which the allegations are being made is furnished to determine whether such a policy change is justified.

In the meantime, the President should direct the military to immediately devise a plan that would allow the military to rapidly eliminate the need for using Pakistan as a supply route for Afghanistan operations should the above measure become necessary.

Pakistan is not the best of allies. They fight the Taliban, but they don't want to do too much damage as Pakistan uses these Taliban to fight India (Pakistan using Taliban against India as its strategic arm). There are also many soldiers in the Pakistani military who support the Taliban (Why the Pakistani Army Will Not Fight the Taliban). In addition to this



The bulk of the Pakistan Army is from Punjabi. It is likely that each village in Pakistan Punjab does have a significant number of men in the Army. It has been the Pakistan Army in Punjabi that shows little willingness to fight the Taliban. Up to 70% of the Army is Punjabi, these men are not going to start fighting their own brothers, even if the brother is Taliban. Further, Pakistan is not going to sacrifice its national security for the US, and its national security requires control of Afghanistan. The Pakistani Government is fed up with American pressure linked to the billions in loans. They hate it, yet need the loans, so they go through the motions of fighting the Taliban. Americans have made derogatory comments on Pakistan for so long.The rank and file Pakistani soldier doesn't want to fight Taliban, but secretly wants to kick American butt.​
 
With friends like Pakistan, who needs enemies? But they're going to have to clean their game up. I'm sure they wouldn't want to be taken over and then gifted to India.
 
It's likely that the ISI intentionally provided support for the terrorist groups, instead of some loopholes. Create a terror, an enemy, and then voila, you have aid from the US. Typical terror manipulation. The only thing different is that the ISI either did it horribly, or the US is really bothered by that and decided to do something about that.

I worry about how far Pakistan and the ISI has gone to create enemies of the USA and assist in their attacks against us. I think you can all grasp what I'm getting at.
 
I'm not surprised. Come on now, no "Ally" harbors his friends enemies. The sadder part is that the CIA thinks we (USA) are good with Pakistan. Apparently we are so arrogant that we can't tell our friends from out enemies, or that we would even care.

Despite what you think, the intelligence community aren't dumb as you portray them.
Many people always accuse the intelligence community of being incompetent, stupid, and making too much errors, as if they can do a better job. If the intelligence community failed, then the US would have collapsed by now.
The people working for intelligence know what they're doing, they have years of experience, they know more than what the idiotic media can show, which is only a fraction of what happens


Of course the US government knows the ISI has been working with Afghani warlords and has been doing so for years. The US currently feels that it needs to be friendly with Pakistan more then the damage caused by Pakistani support of Haqqani. What this public declaration is doing is stating clearly that Pakistan has to contain Haqqani and limit the damage done by the Haqqani network before a certain threshold is crossed. That threashold would be the point at which the Pakistani support of Haqqani outweighs the benifits of US being friendly with Pakistan

People have to remember that Pakistani interests in Afghanistan are somewhat different then US interests, and given the location of Pakistan to Afghanistan combined with the fairweather friendlship the US (ie only when needed) has with Pakistan, Pakistan is putting its interests ahead of those of the US.
 
I'm not surprised. Come on now, no "Ally" harbors his friends enemies. The sadder part is that the CIA thinks we (USA) are good with Pakistan. Apparently we are so arrogant that we can't tell our friends from out enemies, or that we would even care.

With friends like Pakistan, who needs enemies? But they're going to have to clean their game up. I'm sure they wouldn't want to be taken over and then gifted to India.

How many nukes do you want launched and or released to various independant groups?
 
I'm not surprised. Come on now, no "Ally" harbors his friends enemies. The sadder part is that the CIA thinks we (USA) are good with Pakistan. Apparently we are so arrogant that we can't tell our friends from out enemies, or that we would even care.

......without getting too deep into the weeds..... I wouldn't worry about that too much.
 
Despite what you think, the intelligence community aren't dumb as you portray them.
Many people always accuse the intelligence community of being incompetent, stupid, and making too much errors, as if they can do a better job. If the intelligence community failed, then the US would have collapsed by now.
The people working for intelligence know what they're doing, they have years of experience, they know more than what the idiotic media can show, which is only a fraction of what happens

it's also worth noting that, given that this would be an assessment on a nominal "ally", any actual intelligence estimate regarding Pakistani forces will generally be classified Secret // NOFORN.... after all, we don't collect on our allies.... no sir, never, that would be ungentlemanly... just as (we have no doubt) they never collect on us :).


so, getting an actual accurate depiction of the IC's assessment of the ISI is unlikely.
 
How many nukes do you want launched and or released to various independant groups?

How many nukes do they have? Are they releasing material, knowledge, etc to various independent groups now? I mean, if they're going to go this far with their support and training of terrorists, what's to say they haven't been doing so. Maybe we're just better off expanding India till it boarders Afghanistan.
 
How many nukes do they have? Are they releasing material, knowledge, etc to various independent groups now? I mean, if they're going to go this far with their support and training of terrorists, what's to say they haven't been doing so. Maybe we're just better off expanding India till it boarders Afghanistan.

Yes because I'm sure an Indian Occupational force wouldn't cause any problems in Pakistan whatsoever....
 
Yes because I'm sure an Indian Occupational force wouldn't cause any problems in Pakistan whatsoever....

Not if you Germany it up first. They'll be fine.
 
From MSNBC:



U.S.: Pakistan ISI directed Kabul embassy attack - World news - South and Central Asia - Pakistan - msnbc.com

If this is, in fact, accurate, then the U.S. should immediately cut off all financial, military, and technical aid to Pakistan unless those responsible are removed from Pakistan's government and all government-related entities. There needs to be concrete and credible evidence to justify such a drastic measure. Congress should immediately request that the evidence on which the allegations are being made is furnished to determine whether such a policy change is justified.

In the meantime, the President should direct the military to immediately devise a plan that would allow the military to rapidly eliminate the need for using Pakistan as a supply route for Afghanistan operations should the above measure become necessary.

Color me surprised. To me, this is kind of like the USA claiming with great shock, "Breaking News! Evidence shows that the moon is NOT made of green cheese!"

When every single joint operation with the Paki's results in the target being long gone when we arrive, and the one time we don't tell the Paki's squat we end up with bin Laden's head on a pike and the Paki government spitting with outrage, I think even the most brain-dead governmental official might have actually sparked enough brain cells to go, "WTF?" a long time ago.
 
Color me surprised. To me, this is kind of like the USA claiming with great shock, "Breaking News! Evidence shows that the moon is NOT made of green cheese!"

"We are shocked - SHOCKED! - to find gambling going on in here!
 
Color me surprised. To me, this is kind of like the USA claiming with great shock, "Breaking News! Evidence shows that the moon is NOT made of green cheese!"

When every single joint operation with the Paki's results in the target being long gone when we arrive, and the one time we don't tell the Paki's squat we end up with bin Laden's head on a pike and the Paki government spitting with outrage, I think even the most brain-dead governmental official might have actually sparked enough brain cells to go, "WTF?" a long time ago.

I'm not too surprised. Pakistan has been sliding toward failed state status for some time now. The U.S., not understanding the situation in Pakistan, made a serious strategic error in pushing President Musharraf from power. The result has been that Mr. Musharraf is now embittered toward the U.S. and openly voices opposition to U.S. policy aims and an inept and corrupt successor government that is not appreciably more democratic than Mr. Musharraf's was but is notably more hostile toward U.S. interests. In effect, the U.S. hastened the onset of a power vacuum in Pakistan and that development has undermined U.S. interests in the region.
 
I'm not too surprised. Pakistan has been sliding toward failed state status for some time now. The U.S., not understanding the situation in Pakistan, made a serious strategic error in pushing President Musharraf from power. The result has been that Mr. Musharraf is now embittered toward the U.S. and openly voices opposition to U.S. policy aims and an inept and corrupt successor government that is not appreciably more democratic than Mr. Musharraf's was but is notably more hostile toward U.S. interests. In effect, the U.S. hastened the onset of a power vacuum in Pakistan and that development has undermined U.S. interests in the region.

:lol: When I said, "Color me surprised" it was sarcasm. Nobody with an I.Q. higher than that of boiled cabbage is surprised that Pakistan is sabotaging the US, and leaking mission information to Al Qaeda. ;)
 
if Pakistan wants to destroy U.S, it is a matter of time. their supply line goes through Pakistan, U.S should remember that

U.S should accept the defeat now, they have lost the war from poor Afghans. Pakistan could help them in honorable exit, do not expect more then this from Pakistan
 
if Pakistan wants to destroy U.S, it is a matter of time. their supply line goes through Pakistan, U.S should remember that

U.S should accept the defeat now, they have lost the war from poor Afghans. Pakistan could help them in honorable exit, do not expect more then this from Pakistan

Eh, once we stop giving Pakistan billions of dollars every year that they use to line their own pockets and sabatoge US interests, I think we'll have enough money to bribe another corrupt country to let us establish another pipeline. Pakistan doesn't know the meaning of the word "honorable". Personally I expect nothing more from Pakistan than more begging for money with one hand while stabbing us in the back with the other. I just want to get our soldiers out of that entire hellhole pit of corruption that is Iraq and Afghanistan so we can stop paying the damned Pakistan government to train terrorists that blow up Indian cities and murder their own damned people.
 
Eh, once we stop giving Pakistan billions of dollars every year that they use to line their own pockets and sabatoge US interests, I think we'll have enough money to bribe another corrupt country to let us establish another pipeline. Pakistan doesn't know the meaning of the word "honorable". Personally I expect nothing more from Pakistan than more begging for money with one hand while stabbing us in the back with the other. I just want to get our soldiers out of that entire hellhole pit of corruption that is Iraq and Afghanistan so we can stop paying the damned Pakistan government to train terrorists that blow up Indian cities and murder their own damned people.

come on, you are paying us for our services, we are fighting the war of terror just for U.S, if u give us 2 million, your NATO trucks used the infrastructure of 4 billion in Pakistan.

and if you talk about the terror. U.S and Americans are the biggest terrorist. U.S killed millions in Iraq, Afghanistan for the purpose of 9/11 which was an established inside job.

U.S lies about Iraq, they found nothing in the name of weapon of mass destruction, they invaded Afghanistan for a sake of just one person (OBL). Afghans are fighting against foreign occupation, and this is absolutely right according to the rules of U.N
 
Pakistan is a nuclear power, we must proceed with caution. That said, we also need to seek justice and hold our "ally" accountable for betrayal if these accusations are true. The one thing we can count on is that Pakistan and India will always have more hostile relations towards each other.
 
How many nukes do they have? Are they releasing material, knowledge, etc to various independent groups now? I mean, if they're going to go this far with their support and training of terrorists, what's to say they haven't been doing so. Maybe we're just better off expanding India till it boarders Afghanistan.
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India would and does not have the resources required to do so. It is fighting various insurgent groups through significant areas within it. From having 600 000 security forces in Kashmir, to fighting the Naxalites. To divert the required forces to control Pakistan would drain its internal security and see India collapse itself. Its economy is only benifiting a small portion of the population ( upper middle class and well educated)

As for Pakistani nuke, over 100 and most likely between 200-300. It has provided knowledge and mostly likely equipment to various countries most notably North Korea. An invasion of Pakistan would see Pakistani nukes used on the attackers in one form or another. India would be hit with missiles, the US with a smuggled weapon, as Pakistan does not have a missile with the required range.

Pakistan has different interests in Afghanistan, ones that it feels are vital to its security, Afghanistan is rather meaningless to the US, and it should decide whether or not attacking Pakistan would be worth the potentially far higher costs
 
Oh hell, I don't want to attack Pakistan. I didn't want to attack Iraq, either. I was okay with Afghanistan until I learned we'd be staying there for years to babysit the corrupt government in Kabul.

I want the US out of the entire region. Out of Iraq, out of Afghanistan, tell Pakistan to piss off when it begs for money and let that entire tribal hellpit that is South Asia do what they've been doing for centuries, killing each other off.
 
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