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Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

X Factor said:
You have a point. To death penalty opponents, guilt or innocence has to be irrelevant. However, for those who are arguing this is a gross miscarriage of justice...well it is that only if he's not guilty.

Regardless if he is guilty or innocent, state-sponsored murder is a miscarriage of justice. And anyway, it's more cost effective to put someone behind bars for life.

At least if this individual were sentenced to life, he would be alive while further proof of his innocence is being gathered. Executions, in my mind, are supposed to happen when there is ZERO DOUBT of guilt.

In this case, Georgia is being stupid and pigheaded.
 
I mean, given what we know now, I do think there is enough reasonable doubt; however he used all his appeals. My point was given the retraction of the eye witness testimony, at the very least the death penalty should have been taken off the table. Then his lawyers should have gone back to the courts and petitioned for a new trial based on the new evidence. I do not know if the second part is possible, but I'd imagine given the new evidence that he would get a new appeal.
I am opposed to the death penalty. My perspective has nothing to do with the individual and everything to do with the families of the victim. I think executing murderers keeps many families of victims stuck in hatred and anger and it is a poison they will carry with them for the rest of their lives and I think that is tragic. Sentencing is a component of a societies system of law and order. I dont live in Georgia and know NOTHING about the case. I have folowed several death penalty cases and find that invariably, people and their perspectives are driven by the cause. They can cite verbatim the talking points on one side but are completely ignorant of the other sides arguments. Thats a piss poor way to make a reasoned opinion and decision in my book. Few will even BOTHER to look at the evidence presented from the other side...thats for or against. Once their mind is made up based on the cause, they dont particularly care about the individual or the facts. I think it is COMICAL to hear people sya "I oppose the death penalty...screw them...they shpould make them rot for the rest of their life in a cell".

I care about the families of victims first and safety of society second. A convicted murderer? VERY much down on my Chirstmas give-a-**** list. Im not naive...I know sometimes there are miscarriages of justice. Ive worked with prisoners and the prison system...that miscarriage of justice is in my opinion much les prevalent that some people believe.
 
no, that man who was not executed can continue to petition the governor or succeeding governors. his options aren't exhausted.
And since he is 'just' in prison for the rest of his life...who really cares? Where are the throngs of people that show up for executions on a day to day basis? There are far more people in prison with life sentences that maintain their innocence. Why arent people as invigorated about THOSE 'injustices'? Because they dont CARE about the individual...the individual is just a rallying cry. They care about the cause.
 
And since he is 'just' in prison for the rest of his life...who really cares? Where are the throngs of people that show up for executions on a day to day basis? There are far more people in prison with life sentences that maintain their innocence. Why arent people as invigorated about THOSE 'injustices'?
Errrr ......Life... as opposed to death!!!
 
And HERE is precisely the problem. You suddenly care because of the death sentence. So lets say his sentence was commuted to life. Yay!!! Tremendous victory!!! We freqin ROCK we are so powerful! And then you (the generic you meaning all the suddenly inspired anti-death penalty crowd) go about your happy lives unconcerned that that same guy who you believe doesnt deserve the death sentence because of questionable testimony is going to spend the rest of his LIFE in prison with that same questionable testimony. Its not ABOUT the individual...its about 'the cause'. Thats one of my biggest objections to banning the death penalty...the out of sight out of mind mindset that goes along with a life sentence while we can all run around feeling very superior because we dont execute people.

The fact is that a person who is in jail can continue to fight for his release, while a dead man can't. It's all about making sure our justice system has every chance to correct itself, and killing someone puts an end to that.
 
And since he is 'just' in prison for the rest of his life...who really cares? Where are the throngs of people that show up for executions on a day to day basis? There are far more people in prison with life sentences that maintain their innocence. Why arent people as invigorated about THOSE 'injustices'? Because they dont CARE about the individual...the individual is just a rallying cry. They care about the cause.

I think people are, it's just people have lives to live, and can't go out and protest for every little thing that may be connected to something they believe in. And death penalty cases get alot of attention because the finality of the situation, and the thought if people don't do something now it will be too late.
 
The fact is that a person who is in jail can continue to fight for his release, while a dead man can't. It's all about making sure our justice system has every chance to correct itself, and killing someone puts an end to that.
Then there should be daily outcry about the death penalty and people should stop pretending to care about the individual cases.
 
Then there should be daily outcry about the death penalty and people should stop pretending to care about the individual cases.

Individual cases get the media attention, doesn't mean people stop caring about wanting to abolish the death penalty when there isn't a big case on the media. Your assuming things that just aren't the case.
 
Individual cases get the media attention, doesn't mean people stop caring about wanting to abolish the death penalty when there isn't a big case on the media. Your assuming things that just aren't the case.
Im not assuming...Im STATING...people that 'care' about the death penalty use individuals to further their cause.
 
Im not assuming...Im STATING...people that 'care' about the death penalty use individuals to further their cause.

But your assuming that they only care when there is an individual case that makes the spotlight, which isn't so, for the majority anyway.
 
But your assuming that they only care when there is an individual case that makes the spotlight, which isn't so, for the majority anyway.
That is my assertion...correctly stated. Most of the people posting on this or any other death penalty thread hear about these individuals the day of or before the execution. Their 'care' lasts about 36-48 hours. I dont dispute there are some real true opponents of the death penalty that carry this torch daily. for most though? It is as conveenient of an 'issue' as is abortion (to both sides). When it only matters once every four years...it doesnt REALLY matter.
 
That is my assertion...correctly stated. Most of the people posting on this or any other death penalty thread hear about these individuals the day of or before the execution. Their 'care' lasts about 36-48 hours. I dont dispute there are some real true opponents of the death penalty that carry this torch daily. for most though? It is as conveenient of an 'issue' as is abortion (to both sides). When it only matters once every four years...it doesnt REALLY matter.

It's more like, people have a belief, and when something like this hits the news, and thus hits sites like this, and people start talking about it, they express that opinion. It gets more attention during these times, but that doesn't mean that people don't stop having their beliefs after the story dies down. The fact is there are a million of other things to talk about, and the majority of people talk about things that are in the news. Such is human nature.
 
I support the death penalty, but not in cases where there is not physical evidence.

What bothers me about his case is the witnesses that said they lied because of the police. Why wait 20 years to recant. Was it ok for them to see this person stay in jail as long as he was not put to death? Something just doesn't seem right with the them now coming forward at the final hour. Our system is not perfect, yet it is better than some other countries.
 
I've been thinking about all these so-called recanting of testimony claims you see so often when someone is about to get executed. How do we know how many of these or any of these are legitimate? A lot of these laywyers and activists out there trying to stop executions are not really very concerned about guilt and innocence. Their goal is to stop an execution by any means possible. And one of those means is to get witnesses to recant testimony. These witnesses have little to lose these many years later so recanting is not that difficult. Just say you were coerced by the police and there are not really any reprocussions in form of prosecution for perjury or lying to the police. The lawyers get the witnesses caught up in the death penalty issue and you say so what, at least the guy is in prison. So it is kind of hard to give these recants the weight the newspapers and the defendent's lawyers want you to give them.
 
It's more like, people have a belief, and when something like this hits the news, and thus hits sites like this, and people start talking about it, they express that opinion. It gets more attention during these times, but that doesn't mean that people don't stop having their beliefs after the story dies down. The fact is there are a million of other things to talk about, and the majority of people talk about things that are in the news. Such is human nature.
Dont get me wrong...Im fine with people discussing the death penalty when it becomes an issue. I just have a problem with people suddenly pretending to care about the individual...for the sake of a discussion. This story was front page news this morning...it will be gone by noon on most sites. After it hits the evening news...he will be..."hey...remember that guy? That one guy...you know...in Gerogia? He was...like...excuted for something right?" "Yeah...just like that guy in Texas a few weeks back...remember that one?"

but hey...I suppose a footnote and a few minutes of consideration are better than not caring about them at all while they spend the rest of their lives in prison.

It is either important or it isnt.
 
And I noticed you made it a point to avoid answering the long post I made to you in this thread. Why is that?

See how that works?

And I notice you are still ducking this. If you are going to call people out for ducking your posts, you might not want to be ducking theirs.
 
I just got though hearing / reading his death bed statement.

How many of us would have the presence of mind and strength of character to say something coherent, let alone inspiring, just minutes before being put to death by the state?

Troy Davis managed it. According to witnesses who were present,

He looked directly at the members of the family of Mark MacPhail, the officer he was convicted of killing, and told them they had the wrong man. “I did not personally kill your son, father, brother,” he said. “All I can ask is that you look deeper into this case so you really can finally see the truth.” He then told his supporters and family to “keep the faith” and said to prison personnel [who were about to kill him], “May God have mercy on your souls; may God bless your souls.”

Troy Davis’s Deathbed Public Speech
 
Death is the ultimate punishment. There are no do-overs. The death penalty probably constitutes the most intrusive form of government action currently permitted by law. On the other side of the equation, life is without question the most fundamental right afforded to Americans by our Constitution. It should not be taken from us without the highest level of justification. Accordingly, the death penalty should not be imposed as a sentence unless (1) the crime is truly heinous, and (2) there is absolute certainty regarding the perpetrator's guilt.

Such a rule would generally limit the penalty to imposition on those with a long history (established by non-circumstantial evidence) of engaging in inhumane action -- serial killers, mass murderers, genocidal tyrants and the like. I am completely fine with that. Attaching death as a potential penalty for "ordinary" murder raises far too great of a risk of inconsistency, discrimination, and plain error.
 
Apparently a jury did believe his guilt was proven beyond a reasonable doubt. True though, I was not on that jury and neither was anyone else here (I'm fairly certain).

And that jury was poisoned by witnesses who later admitted to lying on the stand, after being coerced by the police. There are also at least 10 witness, who saw it happen, and gave that information to the police. They even gave the police the real killer's name. What the **** don't you get about this?? This wasn't an execution. This was a murder, and may those who were behind it rot in hell.
 
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And that jury was poisoned by witnesses who later admitted to lying on the stand, after being coerced by the police. There are also at least 10 witness, who saw it happen, and gave that information to the police. They even gave the police the real killer's name. What the **** don't you get about this?? This wasn't an execution. This was a murder, and may those who were behind it rot in hell.
Yeeeesssss...now strike him down and let your journey to the dark side become complete...

Or...

read both sides of the story without a preconceived position of oh so rightous indignation. Many of those that 'recanted' their testimony are still all over the place on their testimony and have never faced prosecutors cross examination. 5 that identified him as the shooter have never wavered. No one really knows what the implicating forensic evidence was found on the shorts he was wearing was because it was tossed out. He was convicted by a 7 black/5 white member jury selection so the defense argument that he couldnt get a fair trial is garbage. His own story is all over the place...not shocking when you have had 30 years to reconstruct it. He was indeed the only person at the same location as both shootings. He admitted to being in on the beatdown of the homeless guy but then says he was long gone before the officer was shot...even though the officer interceeded int he actual beatdown. Oh...theres LOTS of different accounts. You get enough time, money, and people on it and you can muddy up any event.

I dont know if he did it or not. I wasnt there. I was not on the jury and didnt sit through the trial. I...like everyone else...just gets to read other peoples accounts of the 'evidence', both for and agin.
 
And that jury was poisoned by witnesses who later admitted to lying on the stand, after being coerced by the police. There are also at least 10 witness, who saw it happen, and gave that information to the police. They even gave the police the real killer's name. What the **** don't you get about this?? This wasn't an execution. This was a murder, and may those who were behind it rot in hell.

Seems the witnessess that lied must have been ok to let the Davis sit in jail for 20 years. So that part of waiting 20 years doesn't bother you? Do you think they would have continued to sit back if the date for his execution wasn't finally set?
By their standards it must be ok for a person who is not guilty to stay in jail. There is something more to the story than what has been printed.
 
I'll posted what I posted on facebook:

This is exactly why people should note the phrase government inefficiency. If you believe the government isn't the solution, and smaller is better, then don't give it the authority to kill it's own people. It's common sense. This defies the principles of small government Conservativism as far as I see it, and this also shows how devastatingly ineffective the government is run.
 
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