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Thread: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I am in favor of sending 100 Innocent men to their deaths in order to ensure that every guilty one ends up there. It isn't my PREFERENCE for how it should work, but in order to ensure that the guilty end up getting their just rewards, that's the way it has to work.
    That is completely contrary to a convention of American jurisprudence, which believes that it is better that a guilty man go free than an innocent man spend a day in prison. Your worldview is much closer to Nazi justice that would shoot a whole town just to be certain they got the guilty party. Sorry sir, but on matters of justice I say your views are un-American.

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Then just add it to the list of the "incredibly inhumane and stupid" things I believe.




    If I'm ever in a situation where it COULD happen to me, then I probably deserve to have it happen.

    Well lets hope your one of the innoncent ones that gets included then this way you can live your dream

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    So I return to my original question. If you, as the victim, are the sole witness to a mugging (say), the guy is caught and you ID him. Should the police just inform you they're releasing the guy and not bringing charges because the only evidence it's him is your ID?
    Yes, if there's no other corroborating evidence that the person was at the scene and tie my belongings to him. There are plenty of scenarios where I might be wrong or lying, therefore the police shouldn't just take my word for it without other corroborating evidence.

    Your scenario is exactly that of the women who convicted a black man of raping her only to find out 11 years later that he was innocent after a DNA test.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Leaving aside some of the over the top rhetoric, I have some real problems with this whole story. Either we have to assume that a group of people is perfectly willing to ignore evidence and condemn a man to death, which I find unlikely, or we have to assume that the evidence we hear is not correct, which seems unlikely, or we can assume that there is more evidence that most of us are unfamiliar with, which seems more likely. I think this rush to judgement on the part of people posting here is kinda sad, though I can understand where it is coming from. Everything I have heard(and not mentioned in the thread is one of the 2 witnesses who has not recanted is a possible suspect in the murder, and that one of the jurors commented that if he knew the ballistic results he would have voted not guilty) suggests that there is strong reason to question his conviction, and yet those 5 people on the Georgia Board of Pardons and Paroles where not swayed, which means either they are bad people, or painfully dumb, or there is something else going on we do not know about.
    Seems to me they have shifted the burden of proof onto the defense. The defendant is now guilty of said crime until proven beyond reasonable doubt that he's not. It's not unheard of for the boards/courts have heard appeals, decided against it, and end up executing an innocent person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    That is completely contrary to a convention of American jurisprudence, which believes that it is better that a guilty man go free than an innocent man spend a day in prison.
    Which is exactly why the body count of innocents will always be much, much higher on the side where the American CJS f*cks up and either wrongfully exonerates a guilty man or underprosecutes him, and he subsequently kills again.

    To be sure, the CJS has a lot more blood on its hands for wrongful exonerations and underprosecutions, than it ever will for wrongful convictions in death penalty cases. If we are to argue against capital punishment on the grounds of human fallability, then we should also argue against the Great Writ of habeas corpus along the same line of reasoning. After all, would it not be more prudent to retain custody of a defendant who is acqutted by a jury in a death penalty case wherein considerable danming evidence is presented during trial? What if he really is guilty and kills another innocent person subsequent to his release?

    In the end, the law must choose in the face of objective uncertainty, even in matters of life and death. There is no way around this. The CJS could just as easily have acquitted Davis and released him back into society, only to have him shoot yet another police officer to death, or have commuted his sentence to 'life without parole', only to have him murder an inmate or C.O. soon after being released into prison general population. In both instances, the CJS would have the blood of the innocent on its hands, no differently than they would for executing Davis after wrongfully convicting him (if that is even the case here).
    Last edited by Sig; 09-21-11 at 08:34 AM.

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    That is completely contrary to a convention of American jurisprudence, which believes that it is better that a guilty man go free than an innocent man spend a day in prison. Your worldview is much closer to Nazi justice that would shoot a whole town just to be certain they got the guilty party. Sorry sir, but on matters of justice I say your views are un-American.
    I would suggest that the American system has no interest in actual JUSTICE, just Legality. There is no impetus in the American system to ensure that the guilty party is PUNISHED for their crime, just an interest in whether the criminal was treated "Fairly" before being given a slap on the wrist (at worst) and turned back out into society.

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Well lets hope your one of the innoncent ones that gets included then this way you can live your dream
    Not a dream; just a realization that no human life is worth more than the desire to ensure actual PUNISHMENT is handed out to the guilty.

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I am in favor of sending 100 Innocent men to their deaths in order to ensure that every guilty one ends up there. It isn't my PREFERENCE for how it should work, but in order to ensure that the guilty end up getting their just rewards, that's the way it has to work.
    i'm fortunate enough to live in a civilised Country where the death penalty has been abolished forever after laws were passed ensuring it could never be reinstated. prior to that, the death penalty had not been used since 1967. what you are advocating above will never ever happen in my Country.

    it always amuses me to see that some of the people who loudly campaign for less Government interference in their lives are the same people who are quite happy to give that same Government the absolute power to choose life over death even knowing mistakes can and have been made.
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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Personally, overall, I see this as a form of moral blowback. The United States has been committing moral atrocities since the Cold War (Chile, Iran, Grenada) that go into the present day (Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya). This moral bankruptcy of the nation has come back to haunt the US domestically and this is just one form of it. If the federal government, the people who lead the nation can kill children and innocent civilians, terming them "collateral damage," cannot adhere to any moral values, how can other forms of government (eg state governments) adhere to any moral values?
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    i'm fortunate enough to live in a civilised Country where the death penalty has been abolished forever after laws were passed ensuring it could never be reinstated. prior to that, the death penalty had not been used since 1967. what you are advocating above will never ever happen in my Country.

    it always amuses me to see that some of the people who loudly campaign for less Government interference in their lives are the same people who are quite happy to give that same Government the absolute power to choose life over death even knowing mistakes can and have been made.
    Ya know why that is? Because there are some crimes that are committed that call for no less of a punishment than death. Perhaps your heart will bleed for someone like Susan Smith, who drowned her 2 little boys, or like the Arizona shooter or the Fort Hood shooter (I could go on and on). As for me, my heart bleeds for the victims and some SOBs richly deserve nothing less.
    Last edited by X Factor; 09-21-11 at 09:49 AM.

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    i'm fortunate enough to live in a civilised Country where the death penalty has been abolished forever after laws were passed ensuring it could never be reinstated. prior to that, the death penalty had not been used since 1967. what you are advocating above will never ever happen in my Country.
    Which is part of why there isn't enough money on this planet to get me to visit your country (Ausie or NZ, I assume) or anywhere in Europe. Not only are you people unwilling to actually PUNISH criminals, you folks have gone out of your way to remove as many of my means of self-defense as possible. Sorry, not interested in being a sheeple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    it always amuses me to see that some of the people who loudly campaign for less Government interference in their lives are the same people who are quite happy to give that same Government the absolute power to choose life over death even knowing mistakes can and have been made.
    I think you miss something. Many of us who speak loudly about the Government interference in our lives are also very vocal about the fact that we do believe the Government has a place in our lives. The problem is that we believe the Government is focused on the wrong things in our lives.

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