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Thread: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    What about all the inmates convicted of murder that aren't on death row - they got life imprisonment. There is no set sentencing for murder. There are different degrees of murder. Some get death, others don't for the same crime/same degree of murder. It's a crapshoot.

    The killers that received life are in the general prison population and are quite capable of murder (as they have proven). There are also killers in the general prison population who just haven't been caught for murder - they're in on another charge. And then you have the ones that are on the edge and just waiting to snap.

    There is no way to get around this problem. Guards are trained to deal with violent offenders. Some states have built special unit prisons. It's where prisoners who are violent in prison are sent. It's not a nice place and they can end up there for life. They're kept completed isolated. Their behavior over time determines if they get out (of isolation) or not.
    I love how, in scary movies, the person yells out, "Hello?" As if the bad guy is gonna be like, "Yeah, I'm in the kitchen! Want a sandwich?"

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    If everyone that is on death row were to suddenly be resentenced to life without parole, and integrated into the mainstream prison population, there would more than likely be a number of inmates and C.O.s murdered.
    I don't think we should be killing people purely based on the risk that they might act violently in prison. That's what we have guards and segregated/solitary confinement for. It's not a good enough reason to end someone's life. We execute people for what they've done, not what we think they might do.

    And anyhoo, almost all death row inmates live in prison for years before they are executed. I haven't heard many stories of them being any more violent than anybody else.
    Last edited by Cameron; 09-24-11 at 08:46 PM.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post

    I don't think we should be killing people purely based on the risk that they might act violently in prison. It's not a good enough reason to end someone's life.
    Oh... Well, I don't think we should refrain from executing a convicted killer based upon the risk that they might not be guilty. There is grave risk when we execute and when we don't execute. This is the point!

    That's what we have guards and segregated/solitary confinement for.
    WRONG.

    The function of a correctional facility is to rehabilitate.

    Guards, and other prison staff, as well as other inmates, are very often killed or maimed by lifers.

    Solitary confinement amounts to cruel and unusual punishment, and often a slow, sadistic method of capital punishment in the form of spirtual death and subsequent suicide.


    We execute people for what they've done, not what we think they might do.
    Yes, Troy Davis was executed for killing an off-duty police officer. So, what's your point????????

    And anyhoo, almost all death row inmates live in prison for years before they are executed. I haven't heard many stories of them being any more violent than anybody else.
    Death row inmates are under much tighter supervision and segregation than lifers in general pop. That being said, death row inmates still manage to kill each other and assault guards.


    Death Row Inmate Said to Beat and Kick Another to Death in New Jersey Prison - New York Times

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency



    *couldn't resist when I saw this *
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    What an outrageous miscarriage of justice.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    Oh... Well, I don't think we should refrain from executing a convicted killer based upon the risk that they might not be guilty.
    Well I guess this highlights where we disagree then. I don't like to err on the side of death.

    There is grave risk when we execute and when we don't execute. This is the point!
    Except when we execute we are the sole party accountable and the victim is an innocent, whereas when criminals kill they typically do so intentionally to other criminals and we try to stop it.



    WRONG.

    The function of a correctional facility is to rehabilitate.
    Very few even in the correctional field still hold to that view. And please remind me how the death penalty is consistent with rehabilitation?

    Yes, Troy Davis was executed for killing an off-duty police officer. So, what's your point????????
    My point is that your reasoning doesn't make much sense and isn't in line with related policy. What is your point in responding with the above-quoted fact?

    Death row inmates are under much tighter supervision and segregation than lifers in general pop. That being said, death row inmates still manage to kill each other and assault guards.

    Death Row Inmate Said to Beat and Kick Another to Death in New Jersey Prison - New York Times
    Of course they do. But my point is that I haven't seen evidence that they behave any more violently in prison than those we don't kill, and for the most part prisons seem more than capable of handling them.
    Last edited by Cameron; 09-27-11 at 12:53 AM.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    While all the righteous indignation in this thread is certainly entertaining, I'm curious how many here have even tried to objectively review the evidence in this case.

    But, despite the claims by Davis's lawyer that his execution was a "legal lynching", a sober reading of the evidence would suggest whatever objections you might have to his execution, Davis's innocence shouldn't be one of them. And you certainly shouldn't worry that he wasn't given the chance to have his claims considered properly.

    For in addition to an extraordinary US District Court hearing granted to him by order of the US Supreme Court in 2009, Davis's evidence for his innocence was examined by the Georgia State Supreme Court, its Board of Pardons and Paroles and a Federal Court of Appeals.

    The Georgia Board of Pardons alone spent more than a year studying and considering Davis's case, giving his lawyers opportunity to call - and question closely - every witness they wanted. It also read Davis's trial transcript, the police investigation reports and the original witness statements, had physical evidence retested, and interviewed Davis.

    By the time US District Court Justice William T. Moore - a Clinton administration appointment - last year came to hear Davis's extraordinary Supreme Court-ordered appeal, most of the evidence on which it was based was almost 10 years old.

    His 174-page judgment, reached after a two-day hearing in which Davis's lawyers were again allowed to call witnesses, demolished many of the claims repeatedly aired last week.

    Indeed, it is hard not to agree with Spencer Lawton, the man who prosecuted Davis in 1991, when he said last week that many of those calling for clemency were doing so not because there was any evidence exonerating him but because they opposed the death penalty.
    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/...-1226145301662

    It's fine if people want to make Davis a rallying point for opposition to the death penalty, but don't do it on the false claims that there was no evidence of his guilt. BTW, does anyone know (or care) about the name of the police officer who was shot in the face? This is the problem with such a prolonged appeals process. The actual victim is long since forgotten.

    BTW, a few have brought up the idea of government intrusion and the Constitution. These are red herrings. Whatever the objection is to the DP, it cannot credibly be argued that our founders did not envision it's use or that it is unconstitutional. I'm sure everyone is familiar with the 5th amendment.

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/c...n/amendment05/

    Clearly, there's no constitutional proscription against taking someone's life, so long as the accused is afforded due process.
    Last edited by X Factor; 09-27-11 at 01:48 AM.

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    While all the righteous indignation in this thread is certainly entertaining, I'm curious how many here have even tried to objectively review the evidence in this case.



    No getting around murder evidence | Herald Sun

    It's fine if people want to make Davis a rallying point for opposition to the death penalty, but don't do it on the false claims that there was no evidence of his guilt. BTW, does anyone know (or care) about the name of the police officer who was shot in the face? This is the problem with such a prolonged appeals process. The actual victim is long since forgotten.

    BTW, a few have brought up the idea of government intrusion and the Constitution. These are red herrings. Whatever the objection is to the DP, it cannot credibly be argued that our founders did not envision it's use or that it is unconstitutional.
    Officer McPhail, not an easy name to forget...also was a former Army Ranger. Covered extensively by the press, though of course not to the degree that Davis himself was.

    Edit: Reading the article, X, I still fail to see which of the witnesses actually reliably identified Davis as the shooter. And once again, the only physical evidence was the brass that was tied to a weapon used in a previous crime, which at best is circumstantial. The article makes it seem more like Davis's lawyers royally ****ed up, than convincing me that Davis was absolutely guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 09-27-11 at 01:53 AM.

  9. #309
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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    Well I guess this highlights where we disagree then. I don't like to err on the side of death.
    Too bad. There is no way to avoid it. This is the point which you seem to be unable to get your head around.

    Except when we execute we are the sole party accountable and the victim is an innocent, whereas when criminals kill they typically do so intentionally to other criminals and we try to stop it.
    Except when we don't execute, we are also solely accountable for the death of the next person who gets killed by the killer, since we did not kill the killer when we should have. And once this next victim is dead, it is far too late for apologies.


    Very few even in the correctional field still hold to that view.
    Yeah, I know, and it is a problem. We have lost all real interest in rehabilitation because our prisons have become saturated with incorrigibles who make rehabilitation all but impossible.


    And please remind me how the death penalty is consistent with rehabilitation?
    The death penalty is definitely NOT about rehabilitation. It is about elimination. Please try and focus. It's a very simple formula:

    We rehabilitate the salvageable inmates and execute the incorrigibles.

    Get it now?

    My point is that your reasoning doesn't make much sense and isn't in line with related policy. What is your point in responding with the above-quoted fact?
    My reasoning may not be in line with "related policy" (whatever that's supposed to mean) but it certainly makes sense. You, on the other hand, appear to be chasing you own tail around. If you recall, you belabored the obvious by asserting: "We execute people for what they have done, not for what they might do."

    Yeah, and that's exactly why we execute them for what they have done, so that they do not get a chance to do what they might do next, like kill someone else.

    Of course they do. But my point is that I haven't seen evidence that they behave any more violently in prison than those we don't kill, and for the most part prisons seem more than capable of handling them.
    What did I say? I said death row inmates usually DO NOT commit more violent offenses than lifers because of the tighter security measures on death row. PAY ATTENTION!!!

    Of course, this isn't always the case:

    Rash of Violence Disrupts San Quentin's Death Row - NYTimes.com
    Last edited by Sig; 09-27-11 at 08:50 PM.

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    The death penalty needs overhauled. It shouldn't be as easy as it currently is for the government to kill people. In some cases, I have no problem with it and never did. I see it as practical, but it's mostly handled like an instrument of politics today which is the problem. Conservatives are especially afraid of pardoning somebody for fear of appearing soft on the death penalty. But, putting to death serial killers, sadists, admitted thrill killers, and socipathic killers is practical. They show no remorse, and they basically thrive on hurting others. They will hurt people if they are released or escape, they think about hurting people, some of them even get off on fantasies of hurting/killing/torturing other people, and they write letters to people outside of prison to cause more fear and pain. Many serial killers have even achieved cult status fame and followers and cash in on their crimes. There is some kind of ebay site where they can literally sell letters and murder memorabilia.

    I have no problem putting certain people to death, never did, but I don't think every single person should be condemned to die for a crime just to make a political statement... and that's all the death penalty is IMO
    I agree with a lot of what you are saying here. I would add that those for whom the evidence is overwhelming and indisputable that their appeals would be limited and justice carried out in a far quicker fashion.

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