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Thread: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Plainly stated, I don't know. I also don't know how you all are so certain that he didn't.
    you do this all the time. you throw things into your arguments that people don't say.

    where did i say i was certain that he didn't?
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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Plainly stated, I don't know. I also don't know how you all are so certain that he didn't.
    I'm certainly not certain he didn't.

    What I am certain of is there is certainly no way to take it back, and they certainly could have waited a little longer so that everybody could be certain he had it coming.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    To the first part: thought they had a stay and got pissed when I found out he had been executed.

    Not exactly sure what you mean by the second part. Mr Vs response made it clear he considered the occasional innocent executed an acceptable risk. So I asked him if he would do the patriotic thing and provide the next sacrificial lamb.
    Wishing the same "justice" on those who merrily support what happened tonight is the same as my favorite benediction/curse.

    "I hope you get exactly what you deserve".
    I am totally shocked that the US can murder a man when there is so much doubt about his guilt. Acting much like China I would say and a sad sign for the future if this is the direction it is heading in.

    I don't support the death penalty myself even if people are guilty. However thankfully in the UK we have over the years had several people proved innocent who would have died several years before they were found innocent if we had a death penalty. This has led to most pro DP MP's saying that for this reason even they could not vote for it ...but as the west goes more and more right wing, will this change. Who knows? Some sections of the US clearly have no problems killing people where there is serious doubt of their guilt. Sad day for the integrity of the US.
    Last edited by alexa; 09-22-11 at 05:03 AM.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    I don't support the death penalty either, but legal execution isn't, legally, murder.

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I don't support the death penalty either, but legal execution isn't, legally, murder.
    That could lead to an interesting case.

    Under English Law
    Actus reus

    The definition of the actus reus (Latin for "wrongful act") of murder most usually cited is that by Edward Coke:

    "Murder is when a man of sound memory and of the age of discretion, unlawfully killeth within any county of the realm any reasonable creature in rerum natura under the King's peace, with malice aforthought, either expressed by the party or implied by law, so as the party wo, or hurt etc. die of the wound or hurt etc.within a year and a day of the same.

    Unlawfully

    "Unlawfully" means against law whether civil or criminal. "Malice" is one of the elements which can commonly distinguish a civil wrong (for which the wrongdoer is usually only liable to make financial reparation) from a criminal act (for which the wrongdoer is liable in the matter of murder to imprisonment for life); a death can still be "unlawful" (e.g. one caused by an act of negligence) even if no specific criminal offence is proved.
    Murder in English law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I think a lawyer could show that this was neither in accord with civil or criminal law. We demand that the person is found guilty beyond reasonable doubt. In this case there was clearly massive doubt, so I would suggest that even though it went by the process of the law, that process was found to be corrupt - but maybe things are different in the US.
    Last edited by alexa; 09-22-11 at 07:37 AM.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post

    Something should be done. This is entirely ****ed up. Most people like to argue that they are for the death penalty because with dna evidence and all that, nobody innocent will ever die... yeah right. They are refusing to make sure that they aren't killing an innocent man. This is entirely insane and disgusting. The supreme court obviously needs to get involved and make sure this **** doesn't happen.

    Witness testimony is horrible evidence to boot. My sister used to work for the county and had her undergrad in psychology. She later decided to change her career and become a lawyer after talking to numerous people who were wrongly put away based on faulty witness testimony.
    I wouldn't worry about it. The body count of innocents will always be much, much higher on the side where the CJS f*cks up and either wrongfully exonerates a guilty man or underprosecutes him, and he subsequently kills again.

    To be sure, the CJS has a lot more blood on its hands for wrongful exonerations and underprosecutions, than it ever will for wrongful convictions in death penalty cases. If we are to argue against capital punishment on the grounds of human fallibility, then we should also argue against the Great Writ of habeas corpus on the same grounds. After all, would it not be more prudent to retain custody of a defendant who is acqutted by a jury in a death penalty case wherein considerable danming evidence is presented during trial? What if he really is guilty and kills another innocent person subsequent to his release?

    In the end, the law must choose in the face of objective uncertainty, even in matters of life and death. There is no way around this. The CJS could just as easily have acquitted Davis and released him back into society, only to have him shoot yet another police officer to death, or the CJS could have commuted his sentence to 'life without parole', only to have him murder an inmate or C.O. soon after being released into prison general population. In both instances, the CJS would have the blood of the innocent on its hands, no differently than they would for executing Davis after wrongfully convicting him (if that is even the case here).

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Plainly stated, I don't know. I also don't know how you all are so certain that he didn't.
    Nobody (at least nobody I know) is saying that they're certain he didn't. What most people are saying is that there isn't enough certainty that he did in order for him to be put to death. Simple as that.

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Nobody (at least nobody I know) is saying that they're certain he didn't. What most people are saying is that there isn't enough certainty that he did in order for him to be put to death. Simple as that.
    So, what would you say about the CJS if Davis had not been convicted, or had even been allowed to plea bargain to manslaughter, was released back into society, and killed yet another police officer?

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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    (ORDER LIST: 564 U.S.)

    WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 21, 2011 - ORDER IN PENDING CASE - 11A317 DAVIS, ANTHONY TROY V. HUMPHREY, WARDEN

    The application for stay of execution of sentence of death presented to Justice Thomas and by him referred to the Court is denied.

    http://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/c.../092111.zr.pdf

    23 words. that's it.


    you might have killed the wrong guy.


    Troy Davis is one reason why i will never support the Death Penalty.
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    Re: Troy Davis execution: Georgia pardons board denies plea for clemency

    Maybe this case will lead to some major change in legislature. I'm definitely pro-cap-pun, but in this case? Nuh uh.

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