Poll: Perry's Social Security view concerns some Republicans

So you think cutting social security and medicare is a done deal? I dont know is it ?



Republican voters are evenly split over whether Texas Gov. Rick Perry's outspoken stance on Social Security makes them more or less likely to support him for the presidential nomination, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds, but they are worried that his views could cost him in the general election.


Poll: Perry's Social Security view concerns some Republicans

These numbers clearly demonstrate that any politician taking a firm stance against Social Security will lose the support of the vast majority of the American people. This is in line and totally consistent with poll after poll after poll saying that the American people support Social Security in very high numbers.

The sad thing is that folks like Perry are damn liars. They stand there with a straight face and try to reassure todays seniors - and even some of tomorrows seniors - that the program will be there for them. They then say that for younger workers, they should be able to opt out.

Now either Perry and others make stupidity look like an afternoon at a MENSA meeting or they are being frauds and liars. Riddle me this Perryman - if younger workers opt out and no longer contribute that 12% in FICA tax - who is it that is contributing to Social Security to make those payments to todays and tomorrows seniors possible? What are you going to tell us a few years from now when we are not even taking in half of what we pay out and you clearly DO NOT WANT to tap into the general funds to make up the difference? What sad story will be accompanied by your crocodile tears as you tell the nation how you really wanted this to work but it just has not worked out the way you intended and we have to deeply cut SS benefits? And Perry knows that is the inevitable future of such a scam idea.

This poll shows that the American people know better.

Perry needs to have this stand on Social Security nailed to his forehead so it is out front and center every time he speaks.

lpast said:

So you think cutting social security and medicare is a done deal? I dont know is it ?



Republican voters are evenly split over whether Texas Gov. Rick Perry's outspoken stance on Social Security makes them more or less likely to support him for the presidential nomination, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds, but they are worried that his views could cost him in the general election.


Poll: Perry's Social Security view concerns some Republicans

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All of the repub candidates have similar problems. Their appeals to the teabaggers and other rightwing extremists have led them to make statements the vast majority reject. Even repub voters find their positions objectionable

I can't wait until the repubs pick a candidate and s/he debates Obama.

In all fairness haymarket both sides of the aisle spin to sell to the american people something that they want. To have any chance at all of passing any social security or medicare reform....there has to be #1 a total disclaimer that NOTHING, not one thing will change for anyone 55 an over and the assurance that social security will be there for future generations....Now thats just to SELL change...that doesnt mean the change wont destroy and end social security down the road...and thats exactly what having the "HAVES" opting out of it is intended to do in the long run....it will eventually kill social security which is the teaparty goal.
Even if they assure that nothing will change for anyone over 55....how happy are the 45-54 yr olds going to be with the teaparty ? a 45 yr old could have effectively been forced to pay social security for 28 yrs

haymarket said:

Riddle me this Perryman - if younger workers opt out and no longer contribute that 12% in FICA tax - who is it that is contributing to Social Security to make those payments to todays and tomorrows seniors possible?

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Some don't want to see and others only see what they want to see.

haymarket said:

What sad story will be accompanied by your crocodile tears as you tell the nation how you really wanted this to work but it just has not worked out the way you intended and we have to deeply cut SS benefits?

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This is the end goal, and has been for many, many years, but you can't just slash it all at once, because as the polls have shown, the people just won't stand for it. You've got to go the 'boil the frog' route.


Another question...IF the SS surplus is just a bunch of worthless IOU's, as some conservatives claim, and the money has been spent as general budget all these years rather than raise taxes...why is it cut off at $106,000? Why are people that earn above that amount exempt from the 6.2% tax that working and middle class Americans have been paying for the past 28 years? And conservatives bitch about the poor not paying FIT....Pffft...

lpast said:

In all fairness haymarket both sides of the aisle spin to sell to the american people something that they want. To have any chance at all of passing any social security or medicare reform....there has to be #1 a total disclaimer that NOTHING, not one thing will change for anyone 55 an over and the assurance that social security will be there for future generations....Now thats just to SELL change...that doesnt mean the change wont destroy and end social security down the road...and thats exactly what having the "HAVES" opting out of it is intended to do in the long run....it will eventually kill social security which is the teaparty goal.
Even if they assure that nothing will change for anyone over 55....how happy are the 45-54 yr olds going to be with the teaparty ? a 45 yr old could have effectively been forced to pay social security for 28 yrs

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What you point out underlines that it is the responsibility of all of us to loudly and forcefully speak out and expose this sort of smoke and mirrors act.

BWG wisely points out that this is boiling the frog strategy. That is a perfect comparison.

lpast said:

So you think cutting social security and medicare is a done deal? I dont know is it ?

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yes, it is. the only question is whether we do it soon in such a way as to avoid cuts to current retirees, or wait a couple of years, and have to end up including them as well.

cpwill said:

yes, it is. the only question is whether we do it soon in such a way as to avoid cuts to current retirees, or wait a couple of years, and have to end up including them as well.

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I know you want that to happen but wishs and hopes dont make it so....we'll see

It doesn't matter what I want or wish or hope. Fiscal and Demographic Reality does not bend to meet political convenience - as the Greeks are currently discovering. The major thing I want to happen is that we get to control the process, rather than our creditors.

cpwill said:

It doesn't matter what I want or wish or hope. Fiscal and Demographic Reality does not bend to meet political convenience - as the Greeks are currently discovering. The major thing I want to happen is that we get to control the process, rather than our creditors.

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Your wishes and hopes /= "reality"

cpwill said:

It doesn't matter what I want or wish or hope. Fiscal and Demographic Reality does not bend to meet political convenience - as the Greeks are currently discovering. The major thing I want to happen is that we get to control the process, rather than our creditors.

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CPwill....I have alot of respect for you marine...not only for that but your obviously a very bright fella, alot brighter than I for sure...but some of us are prone to believe hyperbole an bs...I am not...for me to believe I have to see it not hear it from people that have vested interests...and im not speaking about you...im speaking about young rich teaparty greedsters and foxnews that have been doing their best to depress the country and make us all believe the world is going to end as we know it.....I believe thats all a ploy and a power move by the rich and privledged...until I SEE different thats where I stand

lpast said:

So you think cutting social security and medicare is a done deal? I dont know is it ?

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Its a done deal and you better bite the mother****ing bullet

The sheer cost of funding retirement plans, most of all medical benefits, does weigh heavy on America. Simple ecomonics will dictate that the burden of these costs render companies uncompetitive in the global economy. It's only going to get worse as the bulk of the baby boomers retire over the next 20 years. And anyone who is relying on input from social security long term is a ****ing fool. Thanks Franklin Roosevelt, for the legacy and burden of socialism.

ric27 said:

Its a done deal and you better bite the mother****ing bullet.

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Then by all means have all your candidates and the GOP announce that if they get elected they will do away with Social Security and Medicare.

TheNextEra said:

Then by all means have all your candidates and the GOP announce that if they get elected they will do away with Social Security and Medicare.

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Doing it in one fell swoop would devastate millions, but it needs serious reform that can only be done gradually....

TheNextEra said:

Then by all means have all your candidates and the GOP announce that if they get elected they will do away with Social Security and Medicare.

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Of course, they will not do anything of the kind. Instead they will rely on the right wing shock troops of CATO and ALEC and the righties on message boards and blogs to set up the self fulfilling prophecy and then pretend that it was not their fault. the politico's like Perry will instead lie through through their teeth reassurring todays seniors that there will be no changes for them and even allowing for the next generation to get on board SS also. Sounds good right? Until you find out they also want younger workers to have the right to opt out which means taking their 12% FICA tax with them and before you know it the SS funds are depleted with precious little new revenues coming in and by that time President Perry will be retired and giving speeches to right wing groups for $250K a pop.

Its pathetic.

ric27 said:

Its a done deal and you better bite the mother****ing bullet

The sheer cost of funding retirement plans, most of all medical benefits, does weigh heavy on America. Simple ecomonics will dictate that the burden of these costs render companies uncompetitive in the global economy. It's only going to get worse as the bulk of the baby boomers retire over the next 20 years. And anyone who is relying on input from social security long term is a ****ing fool. Thanks Franklin Roosevelt, for the legacy and burden of socialism.

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I better bite the bullet ?? lol....I dont need social security.....know what your talking bout before you speak...the bulk of the baby boomers will be retired in a couple of years...not 20 many of them are already retired.....and if you think its a done deal...you might be pissing up a rope

lpast said:

CPwill....I have alot of respect for you marine...not only for that but your obviously a very bright fella, alot brighter than I for sure...but some of us are prone to believe hyperbole an bs...I am not...for me to believe I have to see it not hear it from people that have vested interests...and im not speaking about you...im speaking about young rich teaparty greedsters and foxnews that have been doing their best to depress the country and make us all believe the world is going to end as we know it.....I believe thats all a ploy and a power move by the rich and privledged...until I SEE different thats where I stand

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man, even Obama now admits there is no way to tax ourselves enough to pay for Medicare. even the AARP now admits we're going to have to cut some Social Security expenditures in order to keep the program solvent. The CBO, the OMB, the IMF, the President's own Bi-Partisan Debt Commission, and every other observer to take a look at our finances are all on the same page here: there is not a physically possible way that these programs will continue as they are currently structured. there is literally not enough money in the world. we're not talking radicals here, we're talking the IMF. tea party greedsters? Obama is a tea party guy? Clinton is a Tea Party Greedster?

haymarket said:

Of course, they will not do anything of the kind. Instead they will rely on the right wing shock troops of CATO and ALEC and the righties on message boards and blogs to set up the self fulfilling prophecy and then pretend that it was not their fault. the politico's like Perry will instead lie through through their teeth reassurring todays seniors that there will be no changes for them and even allowing for the next generation to get on board SS also. Sounds good right? Until you find out they also want younger workers to have the right to opt out which means taking their 12% FICA tax with them and before you know it the SS funds are depleted with precious little new revenues coming in and by that time President Perry will be retired and giving speeches to right wing groups for $250K a pop.

Its pathetic.

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probably we'd only be allowed to take a portion of our FICA with us, and the benefits would be means-tested so that we're not spending them on the wealthy.

cpwill said:

probably we'd only be allowed to take a portion of our FICA with us, and the benefits would be means-tested so that we're not spending them on the wealthy.

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Means testing would most likely end up as the proverbial slippery slope. In the beginning, it would exclude the very wealthy and then creep downwards until only the destitute and poor would get it. SS would simply become a welfare program. If it were not all destroyed by that, such a tranformation would make it then easy to finish off. It is the boiling of the frog all over again.

cpwill said:

man, even Obama now admits there is no way to tax ourselves enough to pay for Medicare. even the AARP now admits we're going to have to cut some Social Security expenditures in order to keep the program solvent. The CBO, the OMB, the IMF, the President's own Bi-Partisan Debt Commission, and every other observer to take a look at our finances are all on the same page here: there is not a physically possible way that these programs will continue as they are currently structured. there is literally not enough money in the world. we're not talking radicals here, we're talking the IMF. tea party greedsters? Obama is a tea party guy? Clinton is a Tea Party Greedster?

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I wasnt talking about Social Security....but we need to reinstitute the bush tax cuts...which if you remember was an across the board tax cut...so everyone gets a tax increase....we need to do that first...then go from there....

Perry will not be getting my vote.

haymarket said:

Means testing would most likely end up as the proverbial slippery slope. In the beginning, it would exclude the very wealthy and then creep downwards until only the destitute and poor would get it.

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eventually - probably yes. which is fine - if the program ends up having to be cut that drastically, better the poor continue to receive.

haymarket said:

Means testing would most likely end up as the proverbial slippery slope. In the beginning, it would exclude the very wealthy and then creep downwards until only the destitute and poor would get it. SS would simply become a welfare program. If it were not all destroyed by that, such a tranformation would make it then easy to finish off. It is the boiling of the frog all over again.

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Exactly. Means testing is an underhanded way to eliminate Social Security altogether.

no, doing nothing ends social security all together. benefits will reduced. means-testing is merely a means of ensuring that those who can least afford the cuts aren't asked to do so in order to cut a check every month to those who don't need it.

cpwill said:

eventually - probably yes. which is fine - if the program ends up having to be cut that drastically, better the poor continue to receive.

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At this perceived point, all of the former middle class will be poor. Meaning that not much would change.