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Thread: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

  1. #831
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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    why should I care?

    and why would I have any belief you could understand his rational if he did?
    If you are just worried about your own wealth then you probably don't care.

    If you care about the wealth of our nation then you would know that real wealth is create by taking raw materials and creating finished goods, not by importing them from China and all points east.

    Look at the balance of trade Turtle.


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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Pssst........... Federal Unemployment tax (FUTA) is paid by the employer, NOT the employee.

    The only two federal payroll taxes that employees pay are FICA and Medicare.
    Correct. Employers just reduce wages by that amount.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    You are not alone in thinking that the Commerce clause gives the government unlimited power. It is a shame. I believe it means the eventual demise of the United States. I wonder what will come next.
    The reality is that it pretty much does. When the founders wrote it interstate commerce was a pretty limited phenomenon, so the ability to pass laws necessary for the regulation of interstate commerce was a fairly limited power. Almost all commerce was intrastate in those days and almost all activities would have had no impact on interstate commerce. But over time interstate commerce took over. To the point where just about anything you do has some tie in to interstate commerce. It creeped into every aspect of our lives, and as the sphere of the activity expanded, the power to regulate expanded with it. It isn't some tricky interpretation or something. The words are 100% clear. Congress has the power to pass whatever laws are necessary and proper for the purpose of regulating interstate commerce. That is how the courts have always interpreted it.

    The framers incorporated a ton of different approaches to constraining the federal government into the constitution. Some worked incredibly well, some didn't turn out to be so effective. The bill of rights worked very well. Checks and balances worked very well. Voting worked very well. But enumerated powers didn't really work out. If we want to give that approach another shot we could amend the constitution, but I think the reality is that that approach just isn't very realistic and the other techniques are the real winners from the ideas they had.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Correct. Employers just reduce wages by that amount.
    then you should be for the Fair tax.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That's right. In the first interview he said "What it will also do, I think, is allow us to make investments in basic scientific research, in infrastructure, in broadband lines, in green energy and will allow us to give us--give some relief to middle class and working class families who have been driving this economy as consumers but have been doing it through credit cards and home equity loans. They're not going to be able to do that. And if we want the economy to continue to go strong, then we've got to make sure that they're getting a little relief as well".

    He wanted the economy "to continue to grow strong" in the first interview and out of "fairness" in the second interview.
    I'm not sure what your concern is. Increasing capital gains are indeed good for those two reasons- it is more fair and it is good for the economy.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I'm not sure what your concern is. Increasing capital gains are indeed good for those two reasons- it is more fair and it is good for the economy.
    How much investment will increase if and when the government is just going to take half of what you make?

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    How much investment will increase if and when the government is just going to take half of what you make?
    Half of what you make? What are you talking about? Obama is proposing raising the tax the uberwealthy pay just to 20% or 25%. The average American pays 27% of their income in taxes... Really, you're going to try me a river about the rich paying almost as much as the average Joe?

    As for investment, if you put more of the burden on the middle class you get less consumer spending, more investment. If you put more of the burden on the wealthy you get less investment, more consumer spending. There is not "magically make the burden of supporting the government disappear" option. We have to distribute the load between the middle class and the wealthy. Both have negative implications for the economy. The smart way to do it is to keep it in balance. Right now we shifted it way too far towards the middle class, our consumer spending sucks, and so we have investors for companies that aren't making enough revenues to justify their valuations. So, we need to shift it back a bit more towards the wealthy. Let consumer spending grow even if it slows down investment.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    then you should be for the Fair tax.
    The fair tax!? That's no different than if we just said "hey guys, we're going to almost double the taxes on the middle class and reduce the taxes on the rich to about 1%". Obviously if they phrased it that way you guys wouldn't support it, so they dazzle you with the word "fair" and you're all over it...

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It's a very quiet revolution talking place. Companies are leaving, as we all know, but so are people. More would probably leave if they could sell their homes, the main asset of most people. I spend a lot of time in Central America and the Europeans have been fleeing there for the past few years but now its Americans who are trying to escape and start a new life elsewhere.

    "You've got a Republic...if you can keep it", and apparently this generation is willing to put it all at risk.
    Don't let the door hit their ass (or yours) on the way out. If they think it's better more power to them.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    President Barack Obama is neither a "boy" nor a Kenyan.
    Well said. The use of both terms is despicable and very revealing of the beliefs of that sort of far right wing mindset.
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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    What is idiocy is allowing pap like this 'fair wage, for fair work' crap go unchallenged. Tell me how much you think pushing a broom in a factory is worth? $30 an hour? More?

    And how do you think all this high priced labor costs America in the global economy due to its purposely inflicted pricing disparity among like products? Don't be blind.

    j-mac
    How much is open for debate, but what do you want the price to be for workers? In the global economy, other countries have UHC and their business don't have to provide health care benefits. You don't want that. So, we add that burden to business. And instead of actually trying to figure out what the problems we deal with are, the easy, mindless thing to do is say unions and workers are evil, lazy, no good. Business on the other hand, well, we need to appease them, but not deal with issues like health care.

    Am I not getting this right?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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