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Thread: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    So you're just admitting you were wrong? He is explicitly saying he would NOT raise it to a point where it would hurt the economy... That's the OPPOSITE of what you guys are claiming... Maybe you were not following the discussion before you jumped in. Yeah, definitely he wants to raise capital gains. Somebody would have to a fool not to. But TurtleDude made the absurd claim that he said he would raise them even if it meant less revenue, which of course he never said. In fact, as the quote you just provided shows, he is saying exactly the opposite- that he would NOT raise them to a point where it would hurt the economy. And in the part I quoted he explained exactly why it would actually help the economy.
    It's clear, once you get through the mess of words in the print interview, that he wants to raise capital gains to the 20%-25% neighbourhood and in the televised interview which followed he says he would raise capital gains "out of fairness". He then refers to the 50 stockbrokers. He repeatedly says he wants it "fair".

    At no time did he say in that debate that he would not do it if it hurt the economy and in fact appears confused when told that revenues went up when capital gains were lowered. He responded to these facts with "that might happen or it might not". He really doesn't have a clue.

    Of course it is also clear Barrack Obama has hurt the economy, and the future of the country, a great deal, no matter what the capital gains might be. I don't believe for a moment that he was ever fearful of hurting the economy.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Gibson's capital-gains tax assertion during debate disputed by economists | Media Matters for America


    From the CBO brief:



    Because taxes are paid on realized rather than accrued capital gains, taxpayers have a great deal of control over when they pay their capital gains taxes. By choosing to hold on to an asset, a taxpayer defers the tax. The incentive to do that -- even when it might otherwise be financially desirable to sell an asset -- is known as the lock-in effect. As a consequence of that incentive, the level of the tax rate can substantially influence when asset holders realize their gains, as can be seen particularly clearly when tax rates change. ... For instance, the Tax Reform Act of 1986 boosted capital gains tax rates effective at the beginning of 1987. Anticipating that increase, investors realized a huge amount of gains in 1986. Then, in 1987, realizations fell by almost as much, returning to a level comparable to that before the tax increase.
    [...]
    The sensitivity of realizations to gains tax rates raises the possibility that a cut in the rate could so increase realizations that revenue from capital gains taxes might rise as a consequence. Rising gains receipts in response to a rate cut are most likely to occur in the short run. Postponing or advancing realizations by a year is relatively easy compared with doing so over much longer periods. In addition, a stock of accumulated gains may be realized shortly after the rate is cut, but once that accumulation is "unlocked," the stock of accrued gains is smaller and realizations cannot continue at as fast a rate as they did initially. Thus, even though the responsiveness of realizations to a tax cut may not be enough to produce additional receipts over a long period, it may do so over a few years. The potentially large difference between the long- and short-term sensitivity of realizations to tax rates can mislead observers into assuming a greater permanent responsiveness than actually exists.


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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Of course it is also clear Barrack Obama has hurt the economy, and the future of the country, a great deal, no matter what the capital gains might be. I don't believe for a moment that he was ever fearful of hurting the economy.
    He's just following orders from the Kenyan Government.


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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You're just anti-economist across the board? How should we craft economic policy?
    I'd allow those who have actually done something create it as opposed to simply learned about it in school.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It's clear, once you get through the mess of words in the print interview, that he wants to raise capital gains to the 20%-25% neighbourhood and in the televised interview which followed he says he would raise capital gains "out of fairness". He then refers to the 50 stockbrokers. He repeatedly says he wants it "fair".
    Right. He wants to raise capital gains to the 20-25% range because it would be more fair. Of course. Nobody ever said otherwise.

    What was claimed earlier is that he said he would do that even if it meant reduced revenues. He certainly never said that, and in fact he has said many times that he would not raise them to the point that it hurt the economy. You just quoted one of those places to me a minute ago.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I'd allow those who have actually done something create it as opposed to simply learned about it in school.
    Running a business and running an economy aren't remotely the same thing. Guess where the people who have run economies work- for the government.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Running a business and running an economy aren't remotely the same thing. Guess where the people who have run economies work- for the government.
    I'm paraphrasing mind you.

    "The banks are in fine shape". Bernanke, just before the crash.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Right. He wants to raise capital gains to the 20-25% range because it would be more fair. Of course. Nobody ever said otherwise.

    What was claimed earlier is that he said he would do that even if it meant reduced revenues. He certainly never said that, and in fact he has said many times that he would not raise them to the point that it hurt the economy. You just quoted one of those places to me a minute ago.
    That's right. In the first interview he said "What it will also do, I think, is allow us to make investments in basic scientific research, in infrastructure, in broadband lines, in green energy and will allow us to give us--give some relief to middle class and working class families who have been driving this economy as consumers but have been doing it through credit cards and home equity loans. They're not going to be able to do that. And if we want the economy to continue to go strong, then we've got to make sure that they're getting a little relief as well".

    He wanted the economy "to continue to grow strong" in the first interview and out of "fairness" in the second interview.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Running a business and running an economy aren't remotely the same thing. Guess where the people who have run economies work- for the government.
    And how's that working out? All the books are in order? Budgets being balanced? Responsibilities being met? Use of taxpayer money is being used efficiently and responsibly?

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    He's just following orders from the Kenyan Government.
    That might be.

    The income for Kenya last year was $7.016 billion and expenditures were $9.043 billion (2010 est.)

    In fact the income versus spending ratios suggest that Kenya is more responsible.
    Last edited by Grant; 09-23-11 at 07:37 AM.

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