Page 57 of 106 FirstFirst ... 747555657585967 ... LastLast
Results 561 to 570 of 1060

Thread: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

  1. #561
    Sage
    teamosil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Last Seen
    05-22-14 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,623

    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Ok, DUDE, take those bonds to the grocerty store and see if they are accepted? Those IOU's have to be funded by cash and where is that cash going to come from? You really are very naive. With a company if there are no profits you get nothing, if the company goes bankrupt you get nothing. With the govt. they are going to print or borrow money to fund your SS because it was spent. My have you been brainwashed.
    That's just crazy talk... You're contending that unless they have like actual dollar bills stuffed away somewhere they don't have any actual assets? They're bonds. Just like you have. There is a thriving bond market. Bonds have a real value... We don't live in a barter economy... Bonds have a fixed term, at the end of that term the government pays them out and sells new bonds to cover it. That's what our national debt is. Social security's bonds are just the same as the debt China holds, the debt private citizens that have bonds hold, etc... I mean, seriously, you don't believe bonds have value? Is that the position you are taking? Contrary to every financial adviser in the universe that considers them the safest, most conservative, way to hold your assets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Right, just print more money! SS wouldn't be bankrupt had the govt. put the money where it belonged, into a trust fund instead of on budget.
    It seriously doesn't seem like you're understanding. Bonds ARE the trust fund. That's where the money is stored- in bonds... Just like if you set up a trust fund for somebody- it would be stored in some kind of asset. Maybe a bank account, maybe stocks, maybe bonds. They use bonds because they're the safest...

    Explain to me how you think they should store it. It seems implausible that you mean they should store it as like paper money...

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    That is the way baseline budgeting works, there will be a cut in the growth of spending that will be called a cut. It isn't as the debt service goes up.
    Hmm?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I have already posted what I would do, starting with cutting out total worthless departments like the Dept. of Education, Department of Transportation, Dept. of Energy, EPA and a few other depts. then cut the rest of the budget 5% across the board all after taking SS and Medicare off budget. Most of those functions are already handled by the states and that is where all social spending belongs.
    So you wouldn't come close to balancing the budget:

    Education- $77 billion
    Energy- $29 billion
    Transportation- $13 billion
    EPA- $8 billion
    5% of remaining budget minus SS and Medicare- $119 billion

    Total cuts you're proposing: $246 billion. Remaining deficit: $1.354 trillion.

  2. #562
    Sage
    Conservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 01:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    67,270

    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    teamosil;1059817476]That's just crazy talk... You're contending that unless they have like actual dollar bills stuffed away somewhere they don't have any actual assets? They're bonds. Just like you have. There is a thriving bond market. Bonds have a real value... We don't live in a barter economy... Bonds have a fixed term, at the end of that term the government pays them out and sells new bonds to cover it. That's what our national debt is. Social security's bonds are just the same as the debt China holds, the debt private citizens that have bonds hold, etc... I mean, seriously, you don't believe bonds have value? Is that the position you are taking? Contrary to every financial adviser in the universe that considers them the safest, most conservative, way to hold your assets?
    Bonds have to be converted to cash, where is that cash going to come from? Bonds have value only based upon the ability to pay so let me know where the money is going to come from to repay them and why was that even necessary in the first place?


    Hmm?
    That the best you can do? figure it out, what is baseline budgeting?


    So you wouldn't come close to balancing the budget:

    Education- $77 billion
    Energy- $29 billion
    Transportation- $13 billion
    EPA- $8 billion
    5% of remaining budget minus SS and Medicare- $119 billion

    Total cuts you're proposing: $246 billion. Remaining deficit: $1.354 trillion.
    My cuts amounted to a budget of 1.4 trillion dollars after removing SS and eliminating departments. I gave you examples

    Defense 600
    International Affairs
    Gen. Science, Space 30.9
    Energy
    Natural resources/env
    Agriculture
    Commerce
    Transportation
    Community Dev
    Education/Train/Social
    Health 150.0
    Medicare
    Income Security 300.0
    Social Security
    Veterans Benefits 108.4
    Justice
    General Govt.
    Net Interest 196.9


    Total 1386.2

    Current Budget

    Defense 696.1
    International Affairs 45.2
    Gen. Science, Space 30.9
    Energy 11.5
    Natural resources/env 41,6
    Agriculture 23.2
    Commerce -82.9
    Transportation 92.5
    Community Dev 24.9
    Education/Train/Social 125.1
    Health 369.0
    Medicare 451.6
    Income Security 624.0
    Social Security 706.7
    Veterans Benefits 108.4
    Justice 55.2
    General Govt. 18.1
    Net Interest 196.9


    Total 3496.4
    Last edited by Conservative; 09-22-11 at 06:50 PM.

  3. #563
    Sage
    teamosil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Last Seen
    05-22-14 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,623

    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Bonds have to be converted to cash, where is that cash going to come from? Bonds have value only based upon the ability to pay so let me know where the money is going to come from to repay them and why was that even necessary in the first place?
    I mean, seriously man, this conversation is just silly. The claim that bonds have no value is just crazy talk. I already told you how it works. Bonds expire, the government pays them out and issues new bonds. It's always done it for the entire history of the modern era. It never defaults. It doesn't cost the government anything to cash them in because it just issues new bonds. You can sell bonds for cash on the open market any time you want. They're the closest thing you can get to actual paper money except paper money...

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    My cuts amounted to a budget of 1.4 trillion dollars after removing SS and eliminating departments. I gave you examples
    Oh lol. You're saying you won't count social security up when you're totaling the budget, and you're counting that as a spending cut... No... lol. That isn't how that works... If you don't count social security you can't count social security taxes, so it washes out. Just changing what items you count in your list, without actually changing any revenues or spending, doesn't change the deficit...

    If you have any other cuts you want to make, list them off and we'll add them to your total. So far you're at $246 billion and you've created a series of nuclear meltdowns, forced states to jack up property taxes to pay for schools stopped the trains from running and allowed corporations to push their costs on to the public through pollution.
    Last edited by teamosil; 09-22-11 at 07:03 PM.

  4. #564
    Sage
    Conservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 01:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    67,270

    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    teamosil;1059817533]I mean, seriously man, this conversation is just silly. The claim that bonds have no value is just crazy talk. I already told you how it works. Bonds expire, the government pays them out and issues new bonds. It's always done it for the entire history of the modern era. It never defaults. It doesn't cost the government anything to cash them in because it just issues new bonds. You can sell bonds for cash on the open market any time you want. They're the closest thing you can get to actual paper money except paper money...
    You are right, this conversation is silly, guess we just go out to the money tree and take off what we need.



    Oh lol. You're saying you won't count social security up when you're totaling the budget, and you're counting that as a spending cut... No... lol. That isn't how that works... If you don't count social security you can't count social security taxes, so it washes out. Just changing what items you count in your list, without actually changing any revenues or spending, doesn't change the deficit...

    If you have any other cuts you want to make, list them off and we'll add them to your total. So far you're at $246 billion and you've created a series of nuclear meltdowns, forced states to jack up property taxes to pay for schools stopped the trains from running and allowed corporations to push their costs on to the public through pollution.
    I took SS out of revenue and out of expense and put it where it belongs. My govt. budget is 1.4 trillion

  5. #565
    Sage
    teamosil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Last Seen
    05-22-14 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,623

    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You are right, this conversation is silly, guess we just go out to the money tree and take off what we need.
    I don't think you understand. If social security had just kept paper cash instead of bonds everything would be the same except more of our debt would be in the hands of foreign countries and the trust wouldn't be gaining interest... The government decides how many bonds it needs to sell and whoever wants to buy them buys them. It isn't like they made more bonds just for social security or something... The legislature could have the SSA just sell off its bonds on the open market tomorrow and get a different kind of asset. Nothing would change.. The SSA would still have the same amount of assets (approx $2 trillion) and the federal government would still have the same debt. I think you aren't clear how it works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I took SS out of revenue and out of expense and put it where it belongs. My govt. budget is 1.4 trillion
    By taking the SS revenue out you reduced the revenue by the same amount as you reduced spending... That doesn't change anything about the deficit just because you are splitting it into two tables instead of one... If only life were that easy. LOL.

  6. #566
    Sage
    Conservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 01:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    67,270

    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I don't think you understand. If social security had just kept paper cash instead of bonds everything would be the same except more of our debt would be in the hands of foreign countries and the trust wouldn't be gaining interest... The government decides how many bonds it needs to sell and whoever wants to buy them buys them. It isn't like they made more bonds just for social security or something... The legislature could have the SSA just sell off its bonds on the open market tomorrow and get a different kind of asset. Nothing would change.. The SSA would still have the same amount of assets (approx $2 trillion) and the federal government would still have the same debt. I think you aren't clear how it works.


    By taking the SS revenue out you reduced the revenue by the same amount as you reduced spending... That doesn't change anything about the deficit just because you are splitting it into two tables instead of one... If only life were that easy. LOL.
    Read the budgets I posted and get back to me. You might just learn something. All I posted was expense cuts. Govt revenue excluding SS would equal 1.2 trillion today in FIT, Corporate taxes, and Excise taxes so we would be short 200 billion dollars and that is without puting 25 million people back to work full time and collecting something from income earners that pay zero FIT. Cutting the budget down to 1.4 trillion is a great start and that would tell business we don't need any more tax revenue from you or those evil rich people.

  7. #567
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 09:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    The industries that use their electricity.
    So without the TVA no one would have any electricity??

    You really should broaden your world.

  8. #568
    Sage
    teamosil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Last Seen
    05-22-14 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,623

    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Read the budgets I posted and get back to me. You might just learn something. All I posted was expense cuts. Govt revenue excluding SS would equal 1.2 trillion today in FIT, Corporate taxes, and Excise taxes so we would be short 200 billion dollars and that is without puting 25 million people back to work full time and collecting something from income earners that pay zero FIT. Cutting the budget down to 1.4 trillion is a great start and that would tell business we don't need any more tax revenue from you or those evil rich people.
    Oh I see what you're saying. All those ones with no numbers next to them you just want to cancel. So you basically just want to eliminate the government entirely except for the military... Yeah, that's what I said would happen if you tried to get all the cuts from just cutting domestic spending. Obviously no sane person would actually support that of course. It would mean the US would immediately become a third world nation... So that's one option. Collapse the country down to third world status.

    Another option would be to make cuts in the military, cuts domestically, and raise revenues. That would be kind of tough. We'd need to do some serious adjusting. But we would certainly still remain first world.

    I don't see why we would opt for the third world anarchy option...
    Last edited by teamosil; 09-22-11 at 07:36 PM.

  9. #569
    Sage
    pbrauer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    11-27-15 @ 03:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    25,394

    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    LOL, spoken like a true liberal socialist professor. Tell that to Bill Gates and others then tell them they aren't paying enough in taxes to fund the services they use. Warren doesn't have a clue and if you buy that neither do you. Insinuation is that the factory owner isn't paying taxes that fund the roads. I doubt Warren has a clue how roads are funded, do you?

    The same is true for education, do you know how education is funded? Same for police and fire services? Put people like that in charge and this country really is in trouble. Obama is bad enough

    Pb, just tell me how much you want me to send to you and let's get on with it. Why waste time sending it to D.C. when I can eliminate the middleman and send it directly to you?
    No thanks, I don't want your money. You could send it to IRS to help pay for Bush's war in Iraq.

    Elizabeth Warren just entered the race for U.S. Senator from Massachusetts and she's already ahead of Scott Brown in the polls.


  10. #570
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Last Seen
    03-03-17 @ 10:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,813

    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    save the hyperbole.

    the whiny wealthy can afford to pay more in income taxes, while the poor & middle-class really can't.
    Yes my Marxist buddy. Or as Radical Karl put it, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need (or needs)."

    Understood.

Page 57 of 106 FirstFirst ... 747555657585967 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •