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Thread: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Tax cuts don't increase the deficit, spending does. As has been shown, tax revenue grew AFTER the Reagan and Bush tax rate cuts were fully implemented, explain why? Like all liberals you want badly to buy the Obama rhetoric but all Obama does is lie to you.
    I don't particularly care if Reagan turned lead into gold. He increased the deficit and it's the exact same policies he used you're now trying to push again.

    We've already deregulated ourselves into a near depression and you want to continue with more deregulations. Amazing.

    Today we need to increase jobs to get the economy moving and pay for it. The only folks that have left the recession unscathed are the rich. If we need to tap them to get the rest of our society moving, they should absolutely pony up. What you're promoting is a fairytale and would require America to continue to borrow to avoid falling into third world status. If you want a third world so bad, have your rich buddies moving to one.
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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Who are they creating wealth for????

    They are projecting a loss of $7.2 billion dollars between 2010 and 2012.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Who said taxes don't matter? how do you explain the growth of Fortune 500 businesses in TX?

    Houston Strategies: Texas #1 in Fortune 500s, Houston gains
    How do you explain states doing better with higher tax rates? Do I need to link that yet again?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    How do you explain states doing better with higher tax rates? Do I need to link that yet again?
    Depends on your definition of "doing better".

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Who are they creating wealth for????

    .
    The industries that use their electricity.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Earlier in thread you said:



    So now you are switching gears to big business?
    This is not rocket science. Higher taxes less money you have to spend or expand or hire people, no different than when your taxes go up you have less to spend on your family and home. The same applies to regulations, the more regulations there are the more money it cost business, no different than you living at home, if you can't burn wood (which you have free in your yard) in your fireplace, because of some EPA rule, you have to use power from a utility, it cost you money. There are over 25,000 pages of business related regulations. Insane.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    NO, again you don't get it, payroll taxes fund SS and SS and Medicare have no business being on budget. The money you put into SS is supposed to go for your retirement in the future. Instead it is put on budget where it doesn't belong and thus proposals to cut SS and Medicare make no sense yet you buy "your" President's rhetoric. WHY is SS and Medicare even on the table. Take them off budget NOW!
    Again, the cuts to those programs is REPUBLICAN goal. Democrats are against it. Obama is proposing a compromise of some of the cuts Republicans want to those programs, but not all. I agree with you. You're taking a solidly Democratic position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Cutting the growth in spending isnt a cut at all and that is what you don't seem to understand.
    I understand that is a catchy bumper sticker slogan and all, but not relevant to anything. Both parties agreed to evaluate various deficit reduction plans based on their deviation from the current plan. That just makes sense. Anything else would just be error... Lets take some examples:

    We are currently spending $x on the wars. 10 years from now we won't be spending anything on the wars. So, would a proposal that involved not being at war in 10 years be a cut of $x per year? Of course not. That would be changing nothing. That's the status quo. To count it as a cut you need to reduce the cost below what is planned.

    Or, for example, medicare is budgeted to continue to increase indefinitely because the cost of medical care will continue to go up. That isn't because they're expanding it or giving anybody any new services or changing any laws, that's just what will happen if we do nothing. So if you can make it go up by less- say by cutting benefits- then you are proposing a real cut.

    You follow?

    Now you can say that you want cuts so big that the total spent goes down. That's fine. But to measure individual elements of a proposal against current spending just doesn't make sense. In some situations maintaining the current level of spending would be a massive increase in spending over what is planned and in others it would be a massive cut. You can't just blur over all that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    As for economic growth, there is none because of the class warfare and anti private sector rhetoric. Govt. spending is about 20% of GDP so it is a small fraction of the total. Consumer spending is 2/3 of GDP and that is where the spending has to come from and you dont generate that spending with higher taxes and no incentive to create jobs.
    Ahha! You are correct that consumer spending is the driver of the economy! Kudos for putting your fingers on that. That realization is the most essential building block of the Democratic approach to the economy and always has been. Republicans argue that we should divert as much money as possible to the rich because they think *investment* is what drives the economy. Democrats argue that we need a balanced approach where money flows both to the rich (who invest) and the rest of us (who consume). That's why Reaganomics failed- it did not deal with consumption properly so we just got bubbles- lots of investment boosting the stock market in the short term without the consumption to support it. That is exactly why we need to make sure that we aren't putting the whole burden of the deficit on the middle class via spending cuts. We need to put some of it on the rich. We shouldn't just double down on this investment > consumer spending approach that has failed so completely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    So if he is cutting spending for Iraq and Afghanistan, why are the budgets higher than they were with Iraq and Afghanistan? Those cuts should have been part of the budget and were therefore there are no cuts, just more Obama rhetoric
    Not sure what you're saying. Explain more?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I have thought about it and the only way to get significant cuts is to start with the 2008 budget and cut from there with actual cuts like eliminating entire departments, Education, Agriculature, Energy, etc.
    Certainly you could model a budget on 2008 if you like. That doesn't change anything about how the cuts are measured.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    I don't particularly care if Reagan turned lead into gold. He increased the deficit and it's the exact same policies he used you're now trying to push again.

    We've already deregulated ourselves into a near depression and you want to continue with more deregulations. Amazing.

    Today we need to increase jobs to get the economy moving and pay for it. The only folks that have left the recession unscathed are the rich. If we need to tap them to get the rest of our society moving, they should absolutely pony up. What you're promoting is a fairytale and would require America to continue to borrow to avoid falling into third world status. If you want a third world so bad, have your rich buddies moving to one.
    Yes, he did, 1.7 trillion in 8 years vs. Obama's 4 trillion three. Is that more or less than Reagan?

    "Your" President has an approval rating in upper 30's and low 40's so it seems that more and more aren't buying the rhetoric yet why are you?

    We definitely need more jobs but the trouble is "your" President doesn't have a clue how do stimulate the private sector. he is a community agitator and that is all that matters to some. Great smile though!

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    How do you explain states doing better with higher tax rates? Do I need to link that yet again?
    Doing better for whom? TX is ranked number one for business and is bringing new taxpayers to TX. Thanks especially to California and Illinois for the recent increase in Texas business employment.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Doing better for whom? TX is ranked number one for business and is bringing new taxpayers to TX. Thanks especially to California and Illinois for the recent increase in Texas business employment.
    texas is 29th in per capita income.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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